Whaddya got?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Personally, I do not want the coaches that the captains' meeting. From a historical stand point, captains not coaches the the team leaders. And there are coaches out there that are not going to like hearing me tell his/her captain that:

1) He/she is in charge of the team from the head coach down to the last priest, rabbi, nun, witch doctor, orthopedic surgeon, and anybody else that is considered bench personnel by the team. This does not mean that the head coach is not in charge of bench personnel, because he is, it just means he is subordinate to the team captain, and that if the head coach cannot control his bench then his captain will.

2) He/she is in charge of his/her teammates on the court.

3) If the head coach does not break the huddle on the first horn during the first timeout of the game, I expect them to break the huddle and that they are to start breaking the huddle on the first horn of each timeout from then on during the game.

MTD, Sr.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

1) He/she is in charge of the team from the head coach down to the last priest, rabbi, nun, witch doctor, orthopedic surgeon, and anybody else that is considered bench personnel by the team. This does not mean that the head coach is not in charge of bench personnel, because he is, it just means he is subordinate to the team captain, and that if the head coach cannot control his bench then his captain will.

Meadow muffins. Are you going to assess an indirect technical foul to the captain if there is a T charged to bench personnel? No.

That paragraph is a lovely picture, a nice ideal; but it's simply not reality. The coach is NEVER subordinate to the team captain and the captain is NEVER responsible for the behavior of the bench. Why spout all that?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Meadow muffins. Are you going to assess an indirect technical foul to the captain if there is a T charged to bench personnel? No.

That paragraph is a lovely picture, a nice ideal; but it's simply not reality. The coach is NEVER subordinate to the team captain and the captain is NEVER responsible for the behavior of the bench. Why spout all that?

Scrapper:

MEADOW MUFFINS!! Is that like a Crock of Horse Manure?

MTD, Sr.


P.S. I had a long weekend and I really don't feel like going into a long discourse but trust me on this one, because I could write a fairly long article on this subject but the history of who can request a timeout and who could and could not talk to the players on the court during a timeout is a good example as to why the captain and not the coach who is in charge of the team. And you know I would never steer you wrong.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

the history of who can request a timeout and who could and could not talk to the players on the court during a timeout is a good example as to why the captain and not the coach who is in charge of the team.

I need a translation on this, but, whatever it is, I think I still agree with scrapper.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I have had a long weekend and I really didn't want to write an article but I guess I am going to have to write one.


Allowing the Head Coach to request a timeout in NFHS and NCAA Men's games is a recent development. This rule change was a straight adoption of the NCAA Women's timeout request rule. The NCAA Women's timeout request rule was one of the NAGWS rules used by the AIAW and the NCAA for women's college basketball before the NCAA Women's Basketball Rules Committee was created. The NAGWS timeout request rule was an adaption of the FIBA timeout request rule; it combined the NBCUSC (National Basketball Committee of the United States and Canada and is the legal predecessor of the NFHS and NCAA Men’s (which eventually became the NCAA Men’s/Women’s Rules Committees) rules committees).

If one goes back in time even further (try the late 1930’s and early 1940’s) and one will see that the Head Coach could not talk directly with the players on the court during timeouts and between quarters. When a team’s request for a timeout was granted the players of both teams had to huddle on the court and could not talk directly with their Head Coaches.

As one peruses the rules below (I couldn't quote the rules because of space limitations), one will see that the Head Coach is rarely mentioned. Some of his most important duties include designating who shall shoot technical free throws (and this to was also only the duty of the Team Captain until recently), designating replacements for disqualified and injured players, and informing the game official whether a team’s timeout request is for a thirty second or a full timeout.

As one can see the NBCUSC wanted the Team Captain to be the supreme leader of the team and not the Head Coach. Today’s rules still reflect that philosophy.


NFHS, NCAA, and NBCUSC rules.

NFHS:

NFHS R3-S1-A2 NFHS R3-S3-A1e

NFHS R8-S3-A1 NFHS R10-S5-A1

NFHS R10-S5-A2 NFHS R10-S5-A3

NFHS R10-S5-A4


NCAA:

NCAA R3-S2-A1 NCAA R3-S4-A18

NCAA R8-S2-A3 NCAA R10-S4

NCAA R10-S4-A4a, b, d, e NCAA R10-S4-A5


NBCUSC: National Basketball Committee of the United States and Canada

This is the legal predecessor to the NFHS and NCAA Men's/Women's Rules committees.


NAGWS: National Association of Girls and Women in Sports.

The Basketball Rules Committee for women's college basketball (and girls' H.S. in some states in the Northeast) for the AIAW and NCAA women's basketball prior to the creation of the NCAA Women's Rules Committee.


FIBA:

FIBA R3-A6.1 FIBA R3-A6.2

FIBA R3-A7.1 FIBA R3-A7.2

FIBA R3-A7.3 FIBA R3-A7.4

FIBA R3-A7.5 FIBA R3-A7.6

FIBA R3-A7.7 FIBA R3-A7.8

FIBA R3-A7.9 FIBA R4-A19.1

FIBA R4-19.3.1 FIBA R3-A7.9

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I have had a long weekend and I really didn't want to write an article but I guess I am going to have to write one.


Allowing the Head Coach to request a timeout in NFHS and NCAA Men's games is a recent development. This rule change was a straight adoption of the NCAA Women's timeout request rule. The NCAA Women's timeout request rule was one of the NAGWS rules used by the AIAW and the NCAA for women's college basketball before the NCAA Women's Basketball Rules Committee was created. The NAGWS timeout request rule was an adaption of the FIBA timeout request rule; it combined the NBCUSC (National Basketball Committee of the United States and Canada and is the legal predecessor of the NFHS and NCAA Men’s (which eventually became the NCAA Men’s/Women’s Rules Committees) rules committees).

If one goes back in time even further (try the late 1930’s and early 1940’s) and one will see that the Head Coach could not talk directly with the players on the court during timeouts and between quarters. When a team’s request for a timeout was granted the players of both teams had to huddle on the court and could not talk directly with their Head Coaches.

As one peruses the rules below (I couldn't quote the rules because of space limitations), one will see that the Head Coach is rarely mentioned. Some of his most important duties include designating who shall shoot technical free throws (and this to was also only the duty of the Team Captain until recently), designating replacements for disqualified and injured players, and informing the game official whether a team’s timeout request is for a thirty second or a full timeout.

As one can see the NBCUSC wanted the Team Captain to be the supreme leader of the team and not the Head Coach. Today’s rules still reflect that philosophy.


NFHS, NCAA, and NBCUSC rules.

NFHS:

NFHS R3-S1-A2 NFHS R3-S3-A1e

NFHS R8-S3-A1 NFHS R10-S5-A1

NFHS R10-S5-A2 NFHS R10-S5-A3

NFHS R10-S5-A4


NCAA:

NCAA R3-S2-A1 NCAA R3-S4-A18

NCAA R8-S2-A3 NCAA R10-S4

NCAA R10-S4-A4a, b, d, e NCAA R10-S4-A5


NBCUSC: National Basketball Committee of the United States and Canada

This is the legal predecessor to the NFHS and NCAA Men's/Women's Rules committees.


NAGWS: National Association of Girls and Women in Sports.

The Basketball Rules Committee for women's college basketball (and girls' H.S. in some states in the Northeast) for the AIAW and NCAA women's basketball prior to the creation of the NCAA Women's Rules Committee.


FIBA:

FIBA R3-A6.1 FIBA R3-A6.2

FIBA R3-A7.1 FIBA R3-A7.2

FIBA R3-A7.3 FIBA R3-A7.4

FIBA R3-A7.5 FIBA R3-A7.6

FIBA R3-A7.7 FIBA R3-A7.8

FIBA R3-A7.9 FIBA R4-A19.1

FIBA R4-19.3.1 FIBA R3-A7.9

And they used to play in a cage made out of chicken wire (or something like that) but what does that have to do with who is in charge of the team today.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by just another ref

And they used to play in a cage made out of chicken wire (or something like that) but what does that have to do with who is in charge of the team today.

jar:

Its called precedent and historical context. I would really suggest that you read the rules that I referenced and you will see that the Team Captain does reign supreme.

In fact:

NFHS R3-S1-A2: The captain is the representative of his/her team and may address an official on matters of interpretation or to obtain essential information, if it is done in a courteous manner. Any player may address an official to request a time-out or permission to leave the court.

NCAA R3-S2-A1: The captain is a team member who may address an official on matters of interpretation or to obtain essential information, when it is done in a courteous manner. Dialogue between coaches and officials should be kept to a minimum.

One can see that Coaches are not considered the leaders per se of the team.


MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

They used to play in a cage made out of chicken wire.

http://www.oddtodd.com/1069589.jpg

http://www.capitalcentury.com/Cage.jpg