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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 09, 2008, 02:37pm
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Rule means what?

I am having trouble with what this rule means. Rule 10 Section 3 Article 6 (pg 62 of Rule book
letter a: Preventing the ball from being made live promptly or from being put in play.
At first I thought maybe it had to do with slapping the ball away after a made bucket but I don't think it does now. The reason for this problem is we had an official that read this rule and after a team had a delay warning on them earlier in the game a player hit the ball away as it came thorugh the net on a made bucket. The official correctly called the delay which in this case was a T (second delay after a warning) but IMO incorrectly called it on the player instead of it being a team Technical. This happened to be the players second technical of the game and was ejected. If anyone can please elaborate on this ruling.

Thanks.
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Old Wed Jan 09, 2008, 02:47pm
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Think of the player who, instead of handing the ball to the official, tosses it into the stands.

This is one example.
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Old Wed Jan 09, 2008, 02:48pm
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ok

Am I correct with the scenerio.. It should have just been a Team Technical.
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Old Wed Jan 09, 2008, 02:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PIAA REF
Am I correct with the scenerio.. It should have just been a Team Technical.
Yes, under FED rules. 10-1-5d
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Old Wed Jan 09, 2008, 02:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PIAA REF
Am I correct with the scenerio.. It should have just been a Team Technical.
Team Tech
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Old Wed Jan 09, 2008, 03:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianaref
Team Tech
And indirect on the HC....
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Old Wed Jan 09, 2008, 03:08pm
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Assuming this was a HS game or played under NFHS rules, the official called it incorrectly. NCAA game it would be a Player T - provided that the warning previously had been for the same delay.
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Old Wed Jan 09, 2008, 03:15pm
Tio Tio is offline
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NCAA:

INDIRECT TECHNICAL FOUL. Two free
throws awarded to the offended team. The ball shall be put
back in play at the point of interruption. Do not count an
individual’s five personal fouls toward disqualification nor
toward the team-foul total, but DO count toward ejection.
The offended player shall be awarded two free throws and
play shall resume at the point of interruption.
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Old Wed Jan 09, 2008, 04:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tio
NCAA:

INDIRECT TECHNICAL FOUL. Two free
throws awarded to the offended team. The ball shall be put
back in play at the point of interruption. Do not count an
individual’s five personal fouls toward disqualification nor
toward the team-foul total, but DO count toward ejection.
The offended player shall be awarded two free throws and
play shall resume at the point of interruption.
That's for NCAAM.

For NCAAW, it's a direct T to the player.
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Old Wed Jan 09, 2008, 06:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coltdoggs
And indirect on the HC....
Not in HS.
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Old Wed Jan 09, 2008, 07:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Think of the player who, instead of handing the ball to the official, tosses it into the stands.

This is one example.
Do you mean something like this?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2RKoXNToOnk&feature=related
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Old Wed Jan 09, 2008, 07:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PIAA REF
I am having trouble with what this rule means. Rule 10 Section 3 Article 6 (pg 62 of Rule book
letter a: Preventing the ball from being made live promptly or from being put in play.
At first I thought maybe it had to do with slapping the ball away after a made bucket but I don't think it does now.....

. If anyone can please elaborate on this ruling.

Thanks.
In addition to not giving the official the ball when a violaiton/foul has been called, it can involve slapping the ball away after the basket if it not just delays it but makes it unavailable. It's largely a matter of degree. If the player (after a made basket) bats the ball into the stands....T. If they merely grab it and hang onto it for a second or bump it away from the other team a few feeet....delay warning (or team T if the 2nd delay).
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Old Wed Jan 09, 2008, 07:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coltdoggs
And indirect on the HC....
Why indirect? No bench personnel involved.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 05:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PIAA REF
I am having trouble with what this rule means. Rule 10 Section 3 Article 6 (pg 62 of Rule book
letter a: Preventing the ball from being made live promptly or from being put in play.
At first I thought maybe it had to do with slapping the ball away after a made bucket but I don't think it does now. The reason for this problem is we had an official that read this rule and after a team had a delay warning on them earlier in the game a player hit the ball away as it came thorugh the net on a made bucket. The official correctly called the delay which in this case was a T (second delay after a warning) but IMO incorrectly called it on the player instead of it being a team Technical. This happened to be the players second technical of the game and was ejected. If anyone can please elaborate on this ruling.

Thanks.
Strictly speaking only one of the examples provided below could fall under this particular rule. The others each have another specific rule to govern the stated action.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Think of the player who, instead of handing the ball to the official, tosses it into the stands.

This is one example.
This properly falls under 10-3-6b or 10-3-7a.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust
In addition to not giving the official the ball when a violaiton/foul has been called, it can involve slapping the ball away after the basket if it not just delays it but makes it unavailable. It's largely a matter of degree. If the player (after a made basket) bats the ball into the stands....T. If they merely grab it and hang onto it for a second or bump it away from the other team a few feeet....delay warning (or team T if the 2nd delay).
1. See the above response.
2. As you state the lesser degree offense is governed by 4-47-3 and 10-1-5d.
The ridiculous action depicted in the OJ Mayo video would have to come under the purview of 10-3-6a since he is not directing his action towards an official or an opponent. I guess it could be considered taunting (10-3-7c), but the rule under discussion is a more direct fit.

Since the throw-in, FT, and jump ball are the only methods of making a dead ball live per rules fundamental #4 we know that any infringement of 10-3-6a must occur just prior to one these three situations. Most of the situations which could arise in under these circumstances already have a specific rule which addresses them. I can come up with only a handful of others:
a. slapping the ball from an official's hands just prior to the adminstration of a throw-in or FT;
b. refusing to properly occupy the designated half of the center circle for a jump ball (could also come under 10-1-5b depending upon the circumstances);
c. refusing to jump and try to touch the tossed ball on a jump ball after being ordered to do so by an official due to the failure of both players to do so on a proir toss (see 6-3-6 and the Note following 6-3-8);
d. after obtaining possession of the ball following a FT attempt after which the ball is to remain dead (ie the FT will be followed by another FT or a throw-in (think FTs for an intentional personal foul or a T)), failing to give the ball to an official (note that there is no whistle that makes the ball dead in such a case so really 10-3-6b doesn't apply).
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Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 09:09am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PIAA REF
after a team had a delay warning on them earlier in the game a player hit the ball away as it came thorugh the net on a made bucket. The official correctly called the delay which in this case was a T (second delay after a warning) but IMO incorrectly called it on the player instead of it being a team Technical.
As others have noted, you are correct and the official was not. Perhaps the official was confused because reaching through the boundary and touching the ball while the inbounder is still holding the ball is technical and is charged directly to the player. Maybe that official assumed both infractions carried the same penalty.

BTW, kudos to the official in the OJ Mayo tape. He handled it calmly and correctly.
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