Scrapper and others: That bet is made because these "jokes" are made so casually many take them as par for the course. It's the common way of any bigotry. It is not uncommon for men to look at me with a puzzled expression when I don't think these "jokes" are funny. So when I see those same comments being bandied so casually, I make the assumption that many, if not most, won't even see that they might not be funny.

There was one that you all missed. And I'm not surprised.

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle
The boys sophomore coach at my local school is a woman.


Hey - that's not nice. Oh wait - you mean for real. Sorry.

Last summer I was sole umpire at a senior LL baseball game. The catcher was having trouble with his mask. His coach came out to help him and when the catcher whined a little, his coach said, "Don't be a woman!" then quickly glanced at me and said, "No offense."

I looked at him sternly and said, "Offense taken. I don't appreciate the word woman being used as an insult." Later in the game, he yelled the same expression from the dugout. I whipped off my mask and glared over. He had his hand clasped over his mouth. I told him, "Ryan, you really need to get that out of your vocabulary if you use it that casually." He didn't do it again. And I don't think he will as casually in the future because I handled it well.

So, Scrapper and others, if you find it offensive that I have indicated my low expectations of your sensitivity, please forgive me. Unfortunately, I think that rainmaker and I can tell you that that same low expectation is a defense mechanism we need. I've seen black men use the same type of defense mechanism.

And therein lies the shame of it all.

Rita

Good point.

Rita

Rita
I hear what you are saying and it is no utopia down under.There was for a very long time the glass ceiling-which is why I work so much with young officials as well as the older ones.I am just trying to make things different for them-you had to be tough skinned and tenacious to come through the ranks in the 80's
The sad thing is I am still giving the skirts down knickers up talk to female officials-reminding them that anything they do in a social situation will be remembered long after their ability to officiate.Unlike their male counterparts.

We (local association) regularly run female only workshops to bring them together from all over NZ and provide topics pertinent to our experiences of reffing.

Anytime anyone is travelling (male or female)get in touch we always have games for you to work especially over your summer?

So it's offensive when somebody attempts humor that points out a stereotype of some women, but it's perfectly fine for you to insult an entire gender by seriously -- not jokingly -- stating that men are incapable of discerning humor from bigotry? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, Rita. The air must be pretty thin way up on that high horse.

You know why we "missed" it, Rita? Because it's not a joke about the woman. It's a joke about language!!! The humor is in the fact that "sophomore" might refer to the coach (as in, "sophomoric") instead of to the team of sophomore-aged boys. It has nothing at all to do with the gender of the coach.

If you take a moment to try NOT to be offended, sometimes you find that there's actually no offense to be taken.

I wasn't there, but I personally don't think you handled it well. You escalated the situation when you could've made your exact same point with a sarcastic comment like, "Yeah, you wouldn't want that!"

I probably will. But I have to tell you that your post touched a real nerve. Not because you're so quick to point out possibly offensive comments by other; but by your callous willingness to engage in exactly the behavior that you're so offended by in others.

Scrappy, some people aren't happy unless they aren't happy.

Scrappy, I took that joke as offensive, too, and not as humor. Your explanation (below) makes no sense to me. I don't think that BITS statement was the joke, he was just stating a fact. There's a sophomore boys team, and the coach is female. Mark's joke was weird, and I assumed he was trying to be double sarcastic or something, but it definitely wasn't funny on the face of it. At least not to me. I know Mark, and know he's not bigoted, but I also see how anyone who doesn't know Mark could assume he's a real a$$ from this statement. I didn't respond because I have a really nasty case of the flu and didn't see Mark's "joke" until there had been enough time pass that I didn't think it would be helpful to say anything. But it is definitely NOT a benign "joke".

Rita is, I think, expressing surprise that no males spoke against that comment, and from this fact is inferring that men, as a group, didn't see the offense. Truth is, I think you're right that most men on this board aren't bigoted at all, or aren't very bigoted. Although I've done my share of bristling at what I think is offensive, overall, it's a pretty safe place, especially compared to the larger officiating world.

But in this world, there's NOWHERE that women aren't sometimes put down or assumed to be less than men, at least upon occasion. It's just the way life is. As Rita says, it's also true of racial minorities. I know that enlightened men like you (no sarcasm intended, I know you're one of the good ones) have trouble believing that, but it's just plain true.

Sorry, Scrappy, I don't follow. How is applying the term sophomoric to a woman not an insult?

This is true as a generalization. I'm not sure it applies here. Rita doesn't know Mark and I think her read of his statement being offensive is very reasonable.

The real problem is that when a woman, a racial minority, a guy, anyone who is systematically put down or held down has to stop and analyze every situation, every statement, every job interview, every traffic stop, every characterization, every look, every joke, every double meaning, every assignment, every insult, every..... well, it's just exhausting. It's just easier to live by that tried and true saying, "Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're NOT out to get you."

I disagree. What she said didn't escalate. She got her point across, and the guy changed his behavior. In situations like this, humor is a mixed message. It says to everyone who hears the exchange that joking is a good way to avoid being responsible for the damage that's being done. Rita told the coach and the kid in a clear but non-violent way that his thinking was completely unacceptable and that it needed to change. The meta-message is that although the coach is just assuming that there's something wrong with being a woman, actually there isn't and the coach should quit teaching his kids that. Women everywhere would be thrilled to see how Rita did this in a very appropriate way, imo.

What else has been said on this board that would make her think any male DIDN'T think this joke was funny, or that any male isn't amused by Mark's joke? She's might be guilty of over-generalizing but she's certainly NOT guilty of callously being hypocritical. No men saw (or no men pointed out) the offense that might be attached to Marks "joke", and Rita is offended by that.

And I don't buy your explanation that the men on this site see it as a language joke. I doubt half of them did. Most readers of this site simply don't think in those terms. That's not a gender-based slam. It's just a comment on the general type of person who's here. SOme are very interested in language and can do some pretty sophisticated wordplay. Most aren't. Not a reflection on intelligence or gender. Just an observation of the nature subject matter and general direction of this site.

Several Brooklyn cheers for you, my good man.

So........ to sum up.......you're happy but tired.;)

How do you know that I'm a man?:confused:

Seriously........

What inferences did you use to come to that particular conclusion?

Good point. Hmmm... Dont know where you live, no matter how hard we've all tried to figure it out, no clue how old you are other than the rather vague appelation "Jurassic", never any mention of kids, spouses... oh, wait, not true. I think there's a post back there somewhere about a wife. (Still, I know lesbians that refer to their partners as wives...)

Yup, don't know much about you personally...

hhhmmmmm.......

So just your general crusty nature and grouchy attitude isn't enough to "assume"? And now I suppose you're gonna get all reticent and cagey and just try to act neutral for a while just to confuse everyone? Cute... very cute...

Think about it. Wasn't it ....gasp....<b>sexist</b> on your part to assume that I'm a male just because I get a tad cranky every now and then?

Actually, most people assume that when someone gets "cranky" every now and then, they're female. Looks like the sexist thing is about a wash on that subject.

:D

And a lot of other subjects too imo.........

I usually assume they don't get enough sleep, don't eat breakfast regularly, or haven't had sex in a while.

Or all of the above?:D