Throw-In ends, huh

[illinoisbluezeb]

Team A violated so they loose the arrow.
Case book 9.2.8

[RushmoreRef]

That's for a lodged ball, yes...

This ball only touched the floor and went oob...or didn't touch the floor.

My point is according to rule 4.42.5:

The throw-in ends when the passed ball touches, or is legally touched by, another player who is either inbounds or out of bounds.

In situation posted the throw in never ends by a touch.

So, does rule 9.2.2 mean it is a violation to throw a ball in that doesn't touch anyone and proceeds to go oob?

I feel really dumb on this one....don't beat me up too bad.

[Bearfanmike20]

Originally Posted by RushmoreRef

That's for a lodged ball, yes...

This ball only touched the floor and went oob...or didn't touch the floor.

My point is according to rule 4.42.5:

The throw-in ends when the passed ball touches, or is legally touched by, another player who is either inbounds or out of bounds.

In situation posted the throw in never ends by a touch.

So, does rule 9.2.2 mean it is a violation to throw a ball in that doesn't touch anyone and proceeds to go oob?

I feel really dumb on this one....don't beat me up too bad.

Sometimes as refs we get hung up on technicalities and forget common sense.

It makes sense that if a throws the ball away they commited a violation and loose the ball and the arrow.

A couple of people referenced the rules above.

Sometimes we (meself included) think too hard about this stuff.

there is an old saying. "keep it simple stupid"

Not calling you stupid LOL, but the point is try not to over think everything.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20

Sometimes as refs we get hung up on technicalities and forget common sense.

It makes sense that if a throws the ball away they commited a violation and loose the ball and the arrow.

A couple of people referenced the rules above.

Sometimes we (meself included) think too hard about this stuff.

there is an old saying. "keep it simple stupid"

Not calling you stupid LOL, but the point is try not to over think everything.

Does someone have the same screen name as you? Unless you've done years and years or rec ball - it isn't the same but at least its something - didn't you make a post today about having your first freshmen games tonight?
Would you walk into a room with veteran officials, officials with state championship and college experience, and begin to talk about what we do as refs? With all the experienced posters on this board that is essentially what you just did. I looked at your post crazy like they would probably look at you if you went into a room saying the same thing. There is also an old saying about being seen and not heard...

I don't want to jump all over you, but think about it for a minute. At this point in your career, would you listen to someone with less experience to you tell you what officials do? If what you say is something you've heard a veteran say, preface it as such.

[Bearfanmike20]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Does someone have the same screen name as you? Unless you've done years and years or rec ball - it isn't the same but at least its something - didn't you make a post today about having your first freshmen games tonight?
Would you walk into a room with veteran officials, officials with state championship and college experience, and begin to talk about what we do as refs? With all the experienced posters on this board that is essentially what you just did. I looked at your post crazy like they would probably look at you if you went into a room saying the same thing. There is also an old saying about being seen and not heard...

I don't want to jump all over you, but think about it for a minute. At this point in your career, would you listen to someone with less experience to you tell you what officials do? If what you say is something you've heard a veteran say, preface it as such.

this would be a pet peave of mine...

so what you are saying is that because I am a new official I am not entitiled to an opinion...

am I wrong??...

Yes.. I absolutely would and do say this stuff to official who have been doing this for 40+ years.. and you know what??.. they dont have a problem with it.

Is there some kind of right of attrition to make a point??

I think that many of us.. new and old still have the same problem. Overcomplication. Its just an opinion.

Sorry to have disturbed some kind of unwritten rule that a new official cant have a take on something.

Isa gonna try and do betta from now on massa...

Come on...


ps.. sorry for the above post. I just get really upset when people tell me I cant have an opinion on somthing. My 5 year old son has not lived as long as me but daily this child teaches at least one thing that I dont know. Even about stuff that I think I do know. The inexperienced can be just as valuble a resource as the experienced because they are devoid of bad habbits that may have been accumulated over the years. The advice I gave above can be applied to anything you do in life. Please dont tell me that my opinion doesn't matter.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20

this would be a pet peave of mine...

so what you are saying is that because I am a new official I am not entitiled to an opinion...

am I wrong??...

Yes.. I absolutely would and do say this stuff to official who have been doing this for 40+ years.. and you know what??.. they dont have a problem with it.

Is there some kind of right of attrition to make a point??

I think that many of us.. new and old still have the same problem. Overcomplication. Its just an opinion.

Sorry to have disturbed some kind of unwritten rule that a new official cant have a take on something.

Isa gonna try and do betta from now on massa...

Come on...

Mike, Tom is one of our resident curmudgeons. He's a very good ref, good on rules but tends to get a little grouchy. He'll rattle his saber a little, but he's also good at encouraging new refs, and refs who need to develop. You can learn a lot from him,even his crusty outbursts.

[Bearfanmike20]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Mike, Tom is one of our resident curmudgeons. He's a very good ref, good on rules but tends to get a little grouchy. He'll rattle his saber a little, but he's also good at encouraging new refs, and refs who need to develop. You can learn a lot from him,even his crusty outbursts.

I understand his point, I just dont completely agree.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Mike, Tom is one of our resident curmudgeons. He's a very good ref, good on rules but tends to get a little grouchy. He'll rattle his saber a little, but he's also good at encouraging new refs, and refs who need to develop. You can learn a lot from him,even his crusty outbursts.

a bad-tempered, difficult, cantankerous person

I don't know about all that.

If I wanted to wax poetic I would say that officiating is an art. Do you tell a seasoned artist how to prepare his brushes? I wouldn't, but that is just me. Can I learn something new from an official? I sure can, but it will more than likely NOT be from statements like you posted. More than likely, we can observe and copy what we see - note, the observe is in silence.

If you know the point I'm tryin to make I think it would be good to accept the point without being sensitive about the way it was delivered.
You said something about your theory applying to life. That is a problem I see with officials all the time. It is often hard to get an adult to realize all the success they've had in other areas of their life don't prepare them for what can occur on a basketball court. There is no credit for success in other areas - a rookie official can crash and burn when they talk more than they listen. There are parts of this game that you are light years away from understanding. Some of us older officials used to go to the bar and sit quietly to learn how to officiate. Now we have the Internet and (some) people think they can use this as a fast forward. These are kindler, gentler days, but you come on!

Would you like to put our theories to the test?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20

Sometimes as refs we get hung up on technicalities and forget common sense.

It makes sense that if a throws the ball away they commited a violation and loose the ball and the arrow.

A couple of people referenced the rules above.

Had you stopped right there, I don't think anyone (not even tomegun) would have taken issue with your post.


[/Quote]Sometimes we (meself included) think too hard about this stuff.

there is an old saying. "keep it simple stupid"

Not calling you stupid LOL, but the point is try not to over think everything.[/QUOTE]

But you added the part about thinking too hard and keeping it simple - which might be good advice (I happen to think it is and would agree with you and buy you another beer at the bar), but it can make some people angry who do take reffing very seriously. It kind of came across as downplaying the hard work and effort some people pour into their officiating careers.

Having said that, of course you can post your opinions...just don't be surprised/indignant/offended when someone else posts that they disagree with your opinion. That's kind of the way opinions work.