Girls game blues...

Dan_ref · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 06, 2002, 11:14pm

There's been quite a bit of discussion recently here & on
the other board about the quality of girls/womens vs boys/mens games. Well tonight I had a girls HS game
(my 8th of the year) and I have to admit I really did not
enjoy it. The quality was OK, for a girls game, it was
close to the end, home eventually won by 5 after
the visitors "big girl" fouled out. I called a good game,
concentrated on my mechanics, did all the good things
(earned my fee) but somehow...it was the first time I was
on the court & really questioned if I was wasting my time.
Maybe I just need a night off...

Tim Roden · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 06, 2002, 11:23pm

In my opinion, the easiest game to call is a girls JV game. Boys Varsity follows close behind. So if you want to knock girls ball go ahead but my opinion stands as that. My opinion.

mick · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 06, 2002, 11:27pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
There's been quite a bit of discussion recently here & on
the other board about the quality of girls/womens vs boys/mens games. Well tonight I had a girls HS game
(my 8th of the year) and I have to admit I really did not
enjoy it. The quality was OK, for a girls game, it was
close to the end, home eventually won by 5 after
the visitors "big girl" fouled out. I called a good game,
concentrated on my mechanics, did all the good things
(earned my fee) but somehow...it was the first time I was
on the court & really questioned if I was wasting my time.
Maybe I just need a night off...

YU.P.
You were just a quart low, Sparky.
mick

Dan_ref · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 06, 2002, 11:29pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim Roden
In my opinion, the easiest game to call is a girls JV game. Boys Varsity follows close behind. So if you want to knock girls ball go ahead but my opinion stands as that. My opinion.

I aint knocking anything Tim, if you've read any of my posts
on this topic you'll know that I have no problem whatsoever
with women's ball, in fact I support it. And it has nothing
to do with what is easier, this was a very easy game, maybe
too easy.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 06, 2002, 11:50pm

This year is my 31st year as a basketball official. I have officiated at every level from boys'/girls' jr. H.S. to women's Div. I (and was lucky enough to have officiated in three D-1 and four jr. coll. regionals) and men's coll. jr. varsity. I have been lucky enough to have been officiating AAU and YBOA nationals since 1993. I still officiate at most of these levels as well as CYO, summer league (jr. H.S. and H.S.).

I look at basketball officiating much the same way as I do structural engineering. I encounter clients with small projects, medium size projects, and large projects. All projects have certain things that are common to all of them regardless of size. And each category of project also has its own requirements that the other ones do not. Some engineers only want to do small and medium size projects. Some engineers only want to do medium and large projects. And some engineers only want to do large projects.

An official has to decide what level of competition that he likes to officiate and stick with. I enjoy officiating all of them. I understand requirements of each category and officiate accordingly. Let me add one other thing here. Tonight I officiated two Special Olympics regular season games (one men's and one women's). Officiating Special Olympics basketball has its own requirements also. I have been fortunate to have been officiating Special Olympics for eleven years now and was picked to officiate in the 1999 World Summer Games (a neck injury two weeks before the competition knocked my out of the games).

If you do not like working a certain type of game, do not take the game. I find that every game and level of game has its own challenges just like every engineering project. The job is to define those challenges and meet them.

mick · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 07, 2002, 12:03am

Mark T.,
I see you got your wind back from last night.

Most difficult level to officiate for me is Special Olympics.

Rules are vague.

Team skills are all over the place.

Coaches are untrained.

Yet Special Olympic is one of the most gratifying levels to officiate.

Player and Coaches are happy to see you.

Team play is the rule, not the exception.

Each basket is a treasure to be remembered.

mick

RX Ref · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 07, 2002, 12:34am

I have had freshman and junior high games better than some girls JV, but not all. I think it depends on the game, not wether it is boys/ girls, or JV / varsity or Jr high.

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
There's been quite a bit of discussion recently here & on
the other board about the quality of girls/womens vs boys/mens games. Well tonight I had a girls HS game
(my 8th of the year) and I have to admit I really did not
enjoy it. The quality was OK, for a girls game, it was
close to the end, home eventually won by 5 after
the visitors "big girl" fouled out. I called a good game,
concentrated on my mechanics, did all the good things
(earned my fee) but somehow...it was the first time I was
on the court & really questioned if I was wasting my time.
Maybe I just need a night off...

JRutledge · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 07, 2002, 12:44am

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

If you do not like working a certain type of game, do not take the game. I find that every game and level of game has its own challenges just like every engineering project. The job is to define those challenges and meet them.

Well good for you. I think that people have the right to voice their opinion about what they do not like and what they like. It is apart of human nature to have perferences. Some people like Steak, some people like Fish. Neither person is wrong for voicing that opinion.

Some of us do not have a choice to a certain extent. Some of us do it because we do not want to be judged as bad people. It takes people time to get to the point where they just say no. I know several officials that are very critical of other officials if they say "I only do boys" but have the ability to take the games they want and give back the games that the would not do in a cold day in hell.

Mark, I you love doing all levels more power to ya. We are all happy for you. But please do not try to be PC and tell the rest of us to share the same attitude about them as you do. And considering that I am sure that many officials have this conversation with their partner's that they deal with and this place is no different.

And for the younger officials that are on this board, they might be feeling the exact same way but are afraid to express it because officials like yourself tell them to not accept games that would be career suicide to them if they did. Not all of us have the right to just say no!! If it bothers you that much, do not respond. I am a little tired of the "my partner did this" stories, but you do not read me saying, "if you got a regular partner, you would not have to worry about that now would you."

I wish some of us would grow up and realize that we are living all over the world and that standards are going to be different based on where we live and the systems that we have to deal with. And just in Illinois considering things are so different from the big city areas to the rural areas, I would think many here would realize differences are going to be there.

Give us all a break. We are all not the same.

Now I feel better.

Peace

Oz Referee · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 07, 2002, 02:12am

Rut,

Having a look at my previous posts, you should know that it is rare for my to leap to the defence of Mark. However, I think you missed the point of his post.

The impression that I got was that Mark was suggesting that everyone should find the level/type of basketball that they are happiest refereeing, and stick to it.

Granted, there are situations throughout our careers that we will be forced into taking games we would rathre not - be it thorugh guilt, career advancement, or simply economic need. But we should all try only to take games that we enjoy - a grumpy referee is a bad referee.

JRutledge · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 07, 2002, 03:21am

Quote:

Originally posted by Oz Referee
Rut,

Having a look at my previous posts, you should know that it is rare for my to leap to the defence of Mark. However, I think you missed the point of his post.

The impression that I got was that Mark was suggesting that everyone should find the level/type of basketball that they are happiest refereeing, and stick to it.

Granted, there are situations throughout our careers that we will be forced into taking games we would rathre not - be it thorugh guilt, career advancement, or simply economic need. But we should all try only to take games that we enjoy - a grumpy referee is a bad referee.

No argument here. I just think people should be allowed to vent. Coaches, fans and players all vent. So why can we not vent?

Peace

Oz Referee · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 07, 2002, 03:35am

Please, vent away!

Jurassic Referee · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 07, 2002, 06:03am

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
There's been quite a bit of discussion recently here & on
the other board about the quality of girls/womens vs boys/mens games. Well tonight I had a girls HS game
(my 8th of the year) and I have to admit I really did not
enjoy it. The quality was OK, for a girls game, it was
close to the end, home eventually won by 5 after
the visitors "big girl" fouled out. I called a good game,
concentrated on my mechanics, did all the good things
(earned my fee) but somehow...it was the first time I was
on the court & really questioned if I was wasting my time.
Maybe I just need a night off...

Dan,maybe the night off has more relevance than the fact it was a girls game.I know that if I do a bunch of games in a row,the enjoyment level starts to drop big-time.A couple of days off usually works wonders.A couple of "brownpops" after one of those games don't hurt,either.

dblref · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 07, 2002, 07:34am

Quote:

Originally posted by mick
Mark T.,
I see you got your wind back from last night.

Most difficult level to officiate for me is Special Olympics.

Rules are vague.
Team skills are all over the place.
Coaches are untrained.

Yet Special Olympic is one of the most gratifying levels to officiate.
Player and Coaches are happy to see you.
Team play is the rule, not the exception.

Each basket is a treasure to be remembered.

mick

Mick: You are absolutely correct! I have Special Olympics this weekend from 9:00 - 1:00 on Sunday. I have done these games for 6 years (did Special Olympics soccer for about 10 years) and you get the greatest feeling doing these games. Some of my fellow officials will not do them because we don't get paid. IMHO that is flat wrong, but to each his own. I enjoy it and I will continue to enjoy it.

WI REF · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 07, 2002, 09:07am

In my opinion (take it for what it's worth), you get out of a game what you put into a game. I do both Girls and Boys Varsity games, usually about 15 of each per season. I have always felt that I need to go into a game with the idea that it will be a great game and I have to give my 110%. Along this same line my regular partners that I work with feel that we need to OFFICIATE all ours game until the final horn sounds. We don't want to cheat ant of the 'subs' out of a chance to be part of the game either. Maybe if you are having problems getting up for these games, it's time for a break!

zebraman · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 07, 2002, 09:13am

Rut,

Did I once read a post by you that said some boys assignors will basically blacklist a ref (my translation, not your exact words) if they did girls games as well as boys?

You are certainly entitled to your negative opinion about girls games and have a right to not accept them on an individual level. However, if I ever knew firsthand of a boys assignor who discriminated against a ref because he/she also officiated girls games, I would file an ethics complaint and perhaps more.

Last time I checked, this was 2002, not 1902.

Z