Girls game blues...

[ChuckElias]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

A couple of "brownpops" after one of those games don't hurt,either.

Mmmmmmmmm, brownpops. I love those chocolate flavored Tootsie-pops. That is what you meant, right? Isn't it?

Chuck

[Jurassic Referee]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Mmmmmmmmm, brownpops. I love those chocolate flavored Tootsie-pops. That is what you meant, right? Isn't it?

Chuck

Yah,right--tootsie-pops!Some nights it seems diet coke just don't make it,Chuck.Sounds like Dan had one of those nights!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by WI REF
In my opinion (take it for what it's worth), you get out of a game what you put into a game. I do both Girls and Boys Varsity games, usually about 15 of each per season. I have always felt that I need to go into a game with the idea that it will be a great game and I have to give my 110%. Along this same line my regular partners that I work with feel that we need to OFFICIATE all ours game until the final horn sounds. We don't want to cheat ant of the 'subs' out of a chance to be part of the game either. Maybe if you are having problems getting up for these games, it's time for a break!

Oz_Ref: Thank you for your defense/defence (you British Empire people have such a quaint way of spelling some words, I have Canadian officiating friends who I kid too).

WI_REF: Well said.

JR: I may not always agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your inalienable right to say it.

[Don in MN]

WI REF:

Bingo. You get out of it what you put into it.

I'm in my third year as an official, and because my work schedule only permits me to do games one (or two, on rare occasions) nights a week, I stick to strictly the B/JV (pre-varsity) doubleheaders common here in Minnesota. I let the guys (and gals) who want to progress in officiating do the varsity games, even though I would qualify to do so now.

Regardless, I enjoy the games I do because I try to put every ounce of effort into my officiating. Not because I get anything out of it besides a game check, but because THE KIDS DESERVE IT. That's regardless of level, talent or ability. They deserve my absolute best effort, even if it's a meaningless, 20-point JV girls' blowout (which I've seen plenty of in my career).

[Dan_ref]

Thanks to all who took the time to post their thoughts,
but who would have thought my little post would get so
many responses. I guess Mick & JR
came closest to hitting the mark. Quart low, needed a
"brownpop", and in that regard Rut got it too. FWIW I
really didn't post this here to seek advice on how to
balance my life/officiating schedule, or to be told how
it's FOR THE KIDS (uhm, no, it's really not, if it was FOR
THE KIDS I would be happy just working 3 Saturday AM 4th
grade boys games, thank you very much), or to be told I
should officiate each game at 100% from pre-game to final
horn ('cause I do that already) and I certainly didn't mean
to open up that boring "girls vs boys" level of play
argument, nor to get a lecture on how each game is a gem and
I would be happy to be out there if I could just find the
challenges each offers ('cause each game is not gem and
sometimes we just would rather be with our own families).
BTW, it's great that some of you guys are working special olympics.

So I vented, I'm feeling better now, I've got another
tonight and I'll probobly show up, if I can just get this
damn noose off my neck before I jump off this desk.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by zebraman
Rut,

Did I once read a post by you that said some boys assignors will basically blacklist a ref (my translation, not your exact words) if they did girls games as well as boys?

You are certainly entitled to your negative opinion about girls games and have a right to not accept them on an individual level. However, if I ever knew firsthand of a boys assignor who discriminated against a ref because he/she also officiated girls games, I would file an ethics complaint and perhaps more.

Last time I checked, this was 2002, not 1902.

Z

I see you are one of these people that lives in the fantasy liberal worlds that everything is equal and should be equal. Good goal but does not apply here.

I never said blacklisted. I said that they would not hire officials that have a greater schedule of girls, or officials that attempt to go farther in girls every year.

Whether you want to face the facts or not, not a single D1 level official does both. Not to say they have never switched at some point, but they do not go a Big 10 Men's game on Monday, and Tuesday doing a Big 10 Women's game. It does not happen. And at the HS level in many areas, it does not happen either. Or you do not see many officials on the top doing both. And considering that we have playoffs for the girls that start before the boys, it is hard to fill games with officials that have boys games and have to give them up, because they are doing playoff games.

It would be kind of hard for anyone to file charges of discrimination if you feel that someone cannot handle the speed and ability of the boys game compared to the girls. If people would stop trying to be PC all the time, they might actually realize that boys are faster, and boys jump higher and the boys game is usually expected to be called a little more physical than girls games. In my opinion it would be like taking an official that is only used to doing a JH boys game and expect that same official to jump to HS boys game and expecting them to handle the speed of the game. And considering that I have actually seen middle school kids play around the rim, and I have never seen a single girls game that is even near it, I think the level of judgement and speed is different.


This is just a fact of the game. The more you move up, the more you have to choose. If you do not believe that, talk to Don Rutledge (WNBA Supervisor), Ed Rush (NBA Director of Officials, Marcy Weston (NCAA Women's Officials Program) and Hank Nichols (NCAA Men's Officials Program) and you tell them if they are all discriminating. Don Rutledge alone said to Referee Maganzine after he decided to be the head person over the WNBA, he clearly asked officials "do you want to do the NBA?" Because if the answer was yes, they were not going to put on the staff. He wanted officials that were committed to Women's basketball, not someone wanting to be somewhere else.

Peace

[rainmaker]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Mmmmmmmmm, brownpops. I love those chocolate flavored Tootsie-pops. That is what you meant, right? Isn't it?

Chuck

To me, neither of these euphemisms stands for anything appealing. Oh, wait, neither of you is home all day with a diaper-dude...

[zebraman]

Rut,

If living in a world where a ref doesn't get held back from progressing in the boys games just because they enjoy doing girls games is fantasy, then I live in a fantasy world. Around here, assignors don't punish someone for choosing to do both. The top refs do both and the assignors work with their schedules to make sure that the top boys and girls games get covered by the best refs available.....period. Many of us give every other Friday night to the boys association and every other Friday night to the girls association. I guess we're just more enlightened around here than in your area. I guess the "good old boys network" seems to take longer to get past in some places.

Preventing someone from doing boys games because they can't handle the speed is one thing. I have no problem with that and that is what a ratings system is for. Preventing them from doing them because they also do girls games (or because they want to go farther in girls whatever that meant) is discriminatory....and stupid. If your assignors are that short-sighted, maybe your area should think about getting assignors that are a little more forward thinking. Do they know that not only do women vote, but a women's vote counts equally to a mans?

My personal experience has been that doing boys games makes me a better girls ref and doing girls games makes me a better boys ref. There are things that happen often in a girls game that rarely happen in a boys game. On those rare times when it does occur in a boys game, it doesn't surprise me.

Sincerely,

Z
Fantasy, U.S.A.

[stripes]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Whether you want to face the facts or not, not a single D1 level official does both.

Peace

This is not true. I have a friend who works both men's and women's games in the same D1 conference. The conference in question has several officials who work men and women.

It is true that there are not many who do both and none of the top men's officials do, but some of the top women's officials cross over a little.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by zebraman
Rut,

If living in a world where a ref doesn't get held back from progressing in the boys games just because they enjoy doing girls games is fantasy, then I live in a fantasy world. Around here, assignors don't punish someone for choosing to do both. The top refs do both and the assignors work with their schedules to make sure that the top boys and girls games get covered by the best refs available.....period. Many of us give every other Friday night to the boys association and every other Friday night to the girls association. I guess we're just more enlightened around here than in your area. I guess the "good old boys network" seems to take longer to get past in some places.

Preventing someone from doing boys games because they can't handle the speed is one thing. I have no problem with that and that is what a ratings system is for. Preventing them from doing them because they also do girls games (or because they want to go farther in girls whatever that meant) is discriminatory....and stupid. If your assignors are that short-sighted, maybe your area should think about getting assignors that are a little more forward thinking. Do they know that not only do women vote, but a women's vote counts equally to a mans?

My personal experience has been that doing boys games makes me a better girls ref and doing girls games makes me a better boys ref. There are things that happen often in a girls game that rarely happen in a boys game. On those rare times when it does occur in a boys game, it doesn't surprise me.

Sincerely,

Z
Fantasy, U.S.A.

I do not think you live in Fantasy USA, I think you do not live in my local or many other locals that make big distictions between the two. If you were to do both in my state, you would be working 6 days a week. I think that is a little much for most. Especially if you have a spouse and children. And considering that not only the quality is on the court, you also have to jungle with time. The girls playoffs overlap with the boys regular season, and it makes it difficult for assignors to get replacements for officials that have to give back regular season games just because they want to do girls regionals instead of regular season boys games. Especially when they knew they had those games from day one.

And let us face it, many officials do not want to be caught doing a girls game no matter what. This is a male dominated advocation and many officials like myself never got into officiating to even do a girls game. When I started, I wanted to be in the NBA. I have since back off that goal, but there was no WNBA to speak of and when I look at the NCAA Women's Final Four, I see mostly women on the court officiating. I feel like the system is more suited for the women to advance to the top levels rather than the men. So I perfer doing the side I feel that I would have a better chance to truely advance.

When I watch a college basketball game, I make it a habit to watch Men's basketball. Sorry I do not do the same with the Women's side. I did that long before I ever officiated a game, and I will continue to do that long after I stop officiating. So in the end it really comes down to what you want to spend your time doing. I personally want to do boys because of all the extra things that comes along with the games. And that is the same reason I watch. I am not PC in the type of women I date, I will be damned if I am PC in the level I want to officate.

That is life, we all have choices and many of us make them everyday.

Peace

[ChuckElias]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rainmaker

To me, neither of these euphemisms stands for anything appealing. Oh, wait, neither of you is home all day with a diaper-dude...

Hey, Juulie, I been there, done that. I was Mr. Mom for 3 years. Believe me, I am glad to be done with anything brown. I can now proudly say "Sometimes a brown Tootsie-Pop is just a brown Tootsie-pop".

Chuck

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by stripes
This is not true. I have a friend who works both men's and women's games in the same D1 conference. The conference in question has several officials who work men and women.

It is true that there are not many who do both and none of the top men's officials do, but some of the top women's officials cross over a little. [/B]

I know many officials that do D1. They only do Men's or Women's not both. Name the conference. The Big 10, Big 12, Conference USA, SEC, ACC, Horizon all have officials that only do one side. I have never known an official to do both conferences in the same year. Name the conference?

Peace

[stripes]

Somehow I just knew you wouldn't believe me, but the Big Sky Conference has officials working men's and women's games.

[bigwhistle]

Originally posted by zebraman
Do they know that not only do women vote, but a women's vote counts equally to a mans?

They do? You ain't from the south I take it.

[Brad]

Somehow I just knew you wouldn't believe me, but the Big Sky Conference has officials working men's and women's games.

True... They even had, this year, some women (gasp) working Men's D1 games -- a first for the NCAA.