I'm not saying you're wrong, and I'm not trying to be obnoxious here. I'm asking for information, okay?

I know we've hashed through this before, but I was never certain where we came out. How do you "...fix it. Period." ? If the partner gets stubbonr and obnoxious (worse than me for instance!) what do you do?

Kick him (I'm assuming "him" because "her"s never get stubborn and obnoxious) in the shins.

Well, yea, but do you let the coaches see you do that? Or keep it in a closed huddle away from the bench?

You tell him he's wrong and you tell him we're changing it and you tell that you'll take the complete responsibility for it.

That said...obviously if you're working with someone who's not entirely....let's say in touch with when he should back off then at some point you'll need to let it go. But it would take a special kind of jerk to not back off when approached in the way I suggest.

Thanks. That's helpful

SO just for my own edification...

Partner blows whistle, signals. I double tweet, dash in for quick chat, then let partner change it, right? go with IW. But if he tries to refuse, you insist once, twice, then just back off?

Do you ever go to the table, or just announce to the coaches, and say, "It was an IW and we're giving it back to A on the sideline with a new 10?"

1) I wouldn't insist. Give your partner the info. Tell him that you're sure that his call was wrong, and then leave the final decision up to him.

1) You don't take the lead in anything. Your partner made the call and it's up to him whether he goes with it or changes it. If your partner changes it, your partner should be the one to explain <b>why</b> he is doing so to <b>both</b> head coaches. Once you gave your partner your input, you're done except for listening.

JMVHO

Yup. Now that I'm only teaching math my English skills must be falling apart. If they get any worse, I'll have to go teach the college prep class in Baxter. :D

It would also take a special kind of jerk to insist that his partner has to change his call when his partner fully believes that he <b>didn't</b> screw up.

The guy that made the final call is gonna end up taking the heat anyway, no matter whether it's the guy who won't change the original call or of it's the guy that insisted that the original call was wrong and talked his partner into changing it. And that's exactly the way it should be.

I'm not sure what you're asking but I wouldn't change anything without discussing with the crew. I don't usually work with this type of jerk (they tend to exhibit other modes of jerkosity) so when i go to someone or someone comes to me we all tend to think twice before responding. Then if there's disagreement or uncertaintly we discuss for a brief (brief!) time before we all agree on what to do next. If there's a disagreement we live with it, but we walk out of the huddle smiling and nodding our heads.

The fireworks wait for the locker room. :)

What he said.

Out of curiousity, can either of you or both give a brief summary of how this conversation would take place once in the locker room? I guess I am asking because being a younger official, I'm wondering how would I address this? I often don't express myself well when I'm a little hot under the collar, and I think I would be in this situation, once we got back to the locker room. Thanks.

"Hey, dufus, here's my rulebook: read 4-6 again and tell me that was basket interference!"

Newer officials must have their heads spinning. In other threads, they are being told not to throw their partners under the bus even when they obviously screw up (e.g., calling over and back on a dribbler whose 3-points have obviously not yet crossed the division line). And, here, there are being told to fix a partner's kicked rule, "Period."

I think JR's advice in this thread is the best for all these situations: go to your partner with information, let your partner exercise her/his judgment with this new information, and then live with her/his judgment. This would have worked in the "frustrating" partner thread, too. Go to your partner, ask what he saw, when he says that the dribbler's foot crossed the line, remind him of the rule and then give him an opportunity to be the big man and change his call. If he refuses to change, well, you've done *your* job. The school hired a three-person crew (or a two-person crew) to work the contest, they did not hire you alone and they are not paying you extra to be the crew hero.

And I agree with others who are of the opinion that it matters not whether or not you are the "referee" on the game. Rut's opinion that the referee has the authority to overrule the call in the OP does not have a basis in the rules (as was pointed out by JAR's rules citations).

Hopefully, we do not run into mules (too stubborn to change their call) too often. One thing we can control is our commitment to not becoming that kind of an official. Listen closely to your partner(s) if they come to you with information/wisdom and then make the best call you can, confident and secure that you will have the support of your crew mates.

You mean me? I'm not getting into a shouting match over some call. If I had to come in & save your azz then I aint taking sh1t about it later.

Right. I agree with this. But I know there are people who read the sentences "Get the call right no matter what" "Fix it. Period" and think that it means overruling. I just wanted to be sure I saw it spelled out clearly so that I could know for sure, and also so I can yell at anyone who tries to do the overrule thing on me. Although I have never displayed the jerkiosity that would require it.

Which brings up another question....

What should I do when I call something, I'm right by rule and by judgment, and my partner comes it to change it? He (she's never do this, right, Snaqs:eek: ?) keeps insisting, and then finally steps out and overrules me. Do I just go with it? Im asking what to do there and then, not what to do in the locker room!