U mayk da cawl

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

M&M and Mark:

I stand corrected concerning the scoring of the goal. I will re-edit my post immediately. Please see my post immediatly above this one.

MTD, Sr.

3 corrections in one day?!?

It must've been a heck've mind-numbing game...

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

3 corrections in one day?!?

It must've been a heck've mind-numbing game...

I just deleted my post regarding yours and Mark's question and am considering a new post to address your concern.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. See New Post below.

[Mark Padgett]

I have to admit I never thought a thread I started mostly in jest would elicit this many serious responses.

I'm going to have to change meds.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

I have to admit I never thought a thread I started mostly in jest would elicit this many serious responses.

I'm going to have to change meds.

... or just start another even more ridiculous thread?

Originally Posted by rainmaker

... or just start another even more ridiculous thread?

You had to encourage him!!!!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

M&M Guy and Mark:

I understand your reasoning for wanting to apply NFHS R5-S2-A1. BUT there is nothing in the original play that tells me what A3's court status is when he touched A1's try. Therefore we can have two possible Rulings regarding this Play.

#1) A3's court status was behind the three point arc when he touched A1's try and therefore three points are scored for the successful try. OR,

#2) A3's court status was inside the three point arc when he touched A1's try and therefore NFHS R5-S2-A1 applies and two points are scored for the sucessful try.

In either case NFHS Casebook Play 5.2.1 SITUATION C (c) and (d) is the play that supports our joint Ruling.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. #1 is my story and I am sticking with it.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

P.S. #1 is my story and I am sticking with it.

Ok, we agree. I believe Mark and I were just commenting on your specific statements:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Per rule it does not matter who touches the ball during the try, the ball remains live as long as the touching is neither basketball interference nor goal tending. And if the try was taken from behind the three point arc and the ball still goes through the basket, then three points are scored.

I was just trying to be a little anal about your specific comment; I actually had a feeling you knew what you were talking about. (I'm not sure what Mark's reasons are. )

[jdw3018]

Mark, if A3 intentionally touches the ball, can't this be ruled the start of a new try or tap?

That's what I was asking (unclearly) earlier...

Oh, and I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on what constitutes "approximately." Since it isn't defined, I guess it is left up to our judgement, and two fouls in less than 1 second constitute "approximately" to me.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Mark, if A3 intentionally touches the ball, can't this be ruled the start of a new try or tap?

That's what I was asking (unclearly) earlier...

Oh, and I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on what constitutes "approximately." Since it isn't defined, I guess it is left up to our judgement, and two fouls in less than 1 second constitute "approximately" to me.

There is no way I'm having a false multiple foul commited against the same shooter. If both must be called (unlikley) then it will be a multiple foul. If it is during the same continuous motion/airborne shooter interval, it IS approximately the same time(unless the shooter finds a way to float in the air for 30 seconds.) If you call it a false multiple and the shooter misses the three, there would be 6 FTs awarded (3 for each foul). Not a chance that this makes any sense.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

There is no way I'm having a false multiple foul commited against the same shooter. If both must be called (unlikley) then it will be a multiple foul. If it is during the same continuous motion/airborne shooter interval, it IS approximately the same time(unless the shooter finds a way to float in the air for 30 seconds.) If you call it a false multiple and the shooter misses the three, there would be 6 FTs awarded (3 for each foul). Not a chance that this makes any sense.

Camron:

I feel your pain. Mark's intent in posting the play as he wrote it was to make officials think. It got officials to open their rules books and casebooks and breakdown the play. That is a good thing. Plus, if this play was on a test, one must answer it per the rules book and I would stand by my ruling of a false multiple foul.


1) The fact that A1's field goal attempt was successful makes it easy for the official to determine how many free throws are to be awarded to A1. A1 will be awarded only one free throw for each foul by B1 and B2, therefore A1 will be awarded two free throws whether B1 and B2’s fouls are ruled a multiple foul or a false multiple foul.


2) If A1's field goal had not been successful, then the game officials have a wonderful problem in determining how many free throws to award to A1. Let’s look at this situation as if one were answering a test question.

NFHS R5-S2-A1 and NFHS Casebook Play 5.2.1 SITUATION C (c) and (d) are the pertinent rules references. While this rules and casebook play refer to situations where the field goal attempt was successful, they tell us how to determine the number of free throws to be awarded to A1’s field goal attempt was unsuccessful.


2a) Let’s first look at how Casebook Play 5.2.1 SITUATION C (c) applies to our situation.

B1 and B2’s fouls are ruled a multiple foul:

A1 will be awarded two free throw for each foul by B1 and B2, therefore A1 will be awarded four free throws.

B1 and B2’s fouls are ruled a false multiple foul:

A1 will be awarded three free throw for each foul by B1 and B2, therefore A1 will be awarded six free throws.


2b) Now let’s look at how Casebook Play 5.2.1 SITUATION C (d) applies to our situation.

B1 and B2’s fouls are ruled a multiple foul:

A1 will be awarded one free throw for each foul by B1 and B2, therefore A1 will be awarded two free throws.

B1 and B2’s fouls are ruled a false multiple foul:

A1 will be awarded two free throw for each foul by B1 and B2, therefore A1 will be awarded four free throws.

MTD, Sr.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Camron:

I feel your pain. Mark's intent in posting the play as he wrote it was to make officials think. It got officials to open their rules books and casebooks and breakdown the play. That is a good thing. Plus, if this play was on a test, one must answer it per the rules book and I would stand by my ruling of a false multiple foul.


1) The fact that A1's field goal attempt was successful makes it easy for the official to determine how many free throws are to be awarded to A1. A1 will be awarded only one free throw for each foul by B1 and B2, therefore A1 will be awarded two free throws whether B1 and B2’s fouls are ruled a multiple foul or a false multiple foul.


2) If A1's field goal had not been successful, then the game officials have a wonderful problem in determining how many free throws to award to A1. Let’s look at this situation as if one were answering a test question.

NFHS R5-S2-A1 and NFHS Casebook Play 5.2.1 SITUATION C (c) and (d) are the pertinent rules references. While this rules and casebook play refer to situations where the field goal attempt was successful, they tell us how to determine the number of free throws to be awarded to A1’s field goal attempt was unsuccessful.


2a) Let’s first look at how Casebook Play 5.2.1 SITUATION C (c) applies to our situation.

B1 and B2’s fouls are ruled a multiple foul:

A1 will be awarded two free throw for each foul by B1 and B2, therefore A1 will be awarded four free throws.

B1 and B2’s fouls are ruled a false multiple foul:

A1 will be awarded three free throw for each foul by B1 and B2, therefore A1 will be awarded six free throws.


2b) Now let’s look at how Casebook Play 5.2.1 SITUATION C (d) applies to our situation.

B1 and B2’s fouls are ruled a multiple foul:

A1 will be awarded one free throw for each foul by B1 and B2, therefore A1 will be awarded two free throws.

B1 and B2’s fouls are ruled a false multiple foul:

A1 will be awarded two free throw for each foul by B1 and B2, therefore A1 will be awarded four free throws.

MTD, Sr.

I don't disagree with the point about whether it is a 2 or a 3 point try based on the touching of the ball by a team mate either inside or outside the arc.

My assertion is that if there are two fouls are called and are commited against the same shooter during the same live ball....it IS approximately the same time and will always be a multiple foul. It doesn't matter that one precedes the other by a small amount of time (even if the release occurs in that interval), it is still "approximately" the same time.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

My assertion is that if there are two fouls are called and are commited against the same shooter during the same live ball....it IS approximately the same time and will always be a multiple foul. It doesn't matter that one precedes the other by a small amount of time (even if the release occurs in that interval), it is still "approximately" the same time.

Agreed. "Approximately" is a judgement, but I see no way that two fouls against a shooter can be anything other than "approximately the same time."