personal communication with coaches

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20

.... a coach can tell you if you are calling consistent game or not. A coach can see if you have an arrogant attitude... coaches can convey alot from their posistion.

Not true.
Maybe.
???????

[Bearfanmike20]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not true.
Maybe.
???????

Why not.... I'm not saying that a coach is qualified to say that your call is right or not.. but it your calling lets say... traveling.. if you call it the same every time.. that is consistency... now the coach may argue wheather its traveling or not, but what I want to know more than anything is if I consistently callled it the same every time. Most coaches I have talked to have said if you gonna call it that way... do it for the entire game. Its probably the biggest gripe I have heard.

So.. yes a coach can tell you if you are being consistent.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20

Why not.... I'm not saying that a coach is qualified to say that your call is right or not.. but it your calling lets say... traveling.. if you call it the same every time.. that is consistency... now the coach may argue wheather its traveling or not, but what I want to know more than anything is if I consistently callled it the same every time. Most coaches I have talked to have said if you gonna call it that way... do it for the entire game. Its probably the biggest gripe I have heard.

So.. yes a coach can tell you if you are being consistent.

I disagree that a coach's opinion of your consistency is going to be valid. Their opinion is colored by their bias. You call a charge on one end and a block on the other end, they consider that inconsistent even when it's not.

One game last year, I had a travel call on a three point shooter. Other end of the court, very next play, I had the other team execute a perfect jump stop prior to his 3-point shot and the coach was whining about consistency. They weren't the same thing, but they were close enough to look like it to a biased observer.

Again, I stand by my disagreement. Consistency is not where coaches ought to be rating officials.

Maybe, game management and approachability. Hustle. Maybe.

[REFVA]

What board do you belong to here in the Commonwealth? I believe that Joyce S. of the VHSL would be displeased to hear that information coming from the leaders of any officials board in the state.
Today 11:18am

Keep in mind I didn't say they did. the facial expression is what got me thinking...

[rockyroad]

I guess I would have to ask why you would want the coach's opinion? What is the point...the majority of the time they will tell you that calls in their favor were good calls, calls against them were questionable. They would probably even make reference to some situation that happened 5 years ago when you did one of their games...and what if the coach says you did a great job? Do you pat yourself on the back? At least until the next time he sends you an evaluation and tells you how horrible you were that night...

As one of my mentors once told me (many moons ago) - if you believe them when they tell you you were good, you have to believe them when they tell you you were bad.

[REFVA]

to coaches you as good as the last call you made that was in their favor. I'm a 10 year vet and always believe that there is room for improvement. I found that when I started I really didn't have a mentor and all the bad habits I picked up I felt were ok. Till I went to my first camp and I felt like I knew nothing especially mechanics luckily it was early in my officiating career and was able to adjust. What an eye opener.

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20
.... a coach can tell you if you are calling consistent game or not. A coach can see if you have an arrogant attitude... coaches can convey alot from their posistion.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not true.
Maybe.
???????

I would agree to SOME degree with Bearfanmike. I have a cousin who's the girls varsity coach at a local school, and I have done some freshman and reserve girls games for that school. He's usually watching the games (more or less to monitor progress by the players in his progress and to see if his assistants are doing their jobs), and there were times he's had some feedback for me, both positive and not-so-positive. He was able to discern whether I was being consistent, and if my attitude was bordering on arrogant or not. Usually, if I got the feeling he was sugar-coating something, I'd ask him bluntly to be blunt and he will be.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20
.... a coach can tell you if you are calling consistent game or not. A coach can see if you have an arrogant attitude... coaches can convey alot from their posistion.



I would agree to SOME degree with Bearfanmike. I have a cousin who's the girls varsity coach at a local school, and I have done some freshman and reserve girls games for that school. He's usually watching the games (more or less to monitor progress by the players in his progress and to see if his assistants are doing their jobs), and there were times he's had some feedback for me, both positive and not-so-positive. He was able to discern whether I was being consistent, and if my attitude was bordering on arrogant or not. Usually, if I got the feeling he was sugar-coating something, I'd ask him bluntly to be blunt and he will be.

If you're talking about someone who has some reason to be partial towards you as well as the team, I'll go with it to some degree. In general, with coaches who aren't related to you, I don't think they're generally qualified to judge an official's consistency.

[SmokeEater]

I think that Coaches can provide an impartial and objective critique ONLY when they are not involved withthe game being played. That is if they are watching a game from the sidelines and not actually coaching in it.

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

I think that Coaches can provide an impartial and objective critique ONLY when they are not involved with the school and game being played. That is if they are watching a game from the sidelines and not actually coaching in it.

I disagree with that statement & here's why.
Last season I'm working a very competitive, inner-city, cross town rival JV game. With the varsity game to follow the atmosphere is pretty darn close to varsity level. The varsity coach is front row in the stands & giving me & my partner more hell than the JV coach whose game it actually was.

I don't want a V coach evaluating me while I'm doing his/her schools JV game either! Bias will creep into the eval as the school wants all levels to win.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

I disagree with that statement & here's why.
Last season I'm working a very competitive, inner-city, cross town rival JV game. With the varsity game to follow the atmosphere is pretty darn close to varsity level. The varsity coach is front row in the stands & giving me & my partner more hell than the JV coach whose game it actually was.

I don't want a V coach evaluating me while I'm doing his/her schools JV game either! Bias will creep into the eval as the school wants all levels to win.

Did you have game management talk to him?

[Mark Padgett]

Simple solution to all of these problems. Prior to the game, ask each coach if they want to buy foul insurance.

[tomegun]

The old rules interpreter for a board in Maryland used to give coaches a test before the season. He would always only have one or two that passed. If a coach can't pass a test similar to the one we take, how can they give an impartial evaluation?
In Mississippi the coaches do evaluate the officials. Those that know me I'm always in danger of getting a bad eval because I'm there to do the best job I can and I don't care what the coach says. On Saturday I had the opportunity to ask a coach when he actually did the evaluation. He told me that he never does it right after the game. He said he likes to wait, watch the film and then do it. If only all the coaches did it this way.

One thing that alarms me about this conversation is the same problem I see in officiating. Back in the day a term was often used - be seen and not heard. Currently, reading the rules makes an official think he/she knows enough to participate in conversations - conversations that discuss doing things on the court that they simply cannot do.
I said all of that to say this. There are experienced officials on this board that are giving their opinion and constantly meeting opposition. Think about this for a second. Someone who has experienced something is giving an opinion and someone who hasn't had the experience is disputing that. Doesn't make sense to me. The bottom line is coaches do not like officials. They are not your friends. Some might think those two statements are extreme and they may be. But those two statements are a lot closer to the truth than thinking a coach is going to give an unbiased opinion.

Gunman out!

Originally Posted by Junker

Did you have game management talk to him?

No, I felt really comfortable about how I was calling the game so while I was at T (2 person) on a free throw administration I discreetly asked him if he wanted to hang around for the varsity contest or if he would rather me hit the eject button now.

I know that wasn't procedure but...

Result:
I never heard another word from him that night. He's a great, brilliant HS coach & led his squad to the 5A Boys State Championship last season.

I did see him often over the summer as I worked all the Pro-AM & DPS summer leagues I could get my hands on & he showed respect each time our paths crossed.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

I think that Coaches can provide an impartial and objective critique ONLY when they are not involved withthe game being played. That is if they are watching a game from the sidelines and not actually coaching in it.

I'd take this a bit further to say it has to be game they have no interest in. A varsity coach watching his JV play, for example.
A JV coach watching his varsity, for example.
A boys coach watching the girls game, for example.
A coach watching a game that his kids are playing in, for example.
A coach watching a game his wife is coaching, for example.