Nothing better to do

TD21 · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 06, 2007, 05:08pm

Also, the issue was not him providing the KS interp. He defended it, which invited response.

That's what I'm talking about........let's use something fro the NCAA rule book as an example. College officials are "required" this year the wear the new CCA jacket. We all agree on that correct? Now I say, the conferences I work in, decided they weren't going to listen to the "requirement" and we weren't going to wear them. What would you say? Am I wrong? If so, why? If I"m not wrong, why? Remember, the book says we are required to wear them. Responses?

Nevadaref · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 06, 2007, 05:10pm

That one is simple. The person in charge of your conference is wrong.

JRutledge · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 06, 2007, 05:19pm

Is there a point coming soon?

Peace

tomegun · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 06, 2007, 05:25pm

I don't even know about the "Kansas" post, but your state is opening up a can of worms. What if you tell a player they are wearing an illegal headband and to take it off? If the player tells you no, what are you going to do and what are you going to use to back yourself up? Since your state has ignored the rule book you can't use that.

TD21 · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 06, 2007, 05:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun

I don't even know about the "Kansas" post, but your state is opening up a can of worms. What if you tell a player they are wearing an illegal headband and to take it off? If the player tells you no, what are you going to do and what are you going to use to back yourself up? Since your state has ignored the rule book you can't use that.

I'm not saying I agree with what we as a state are doing. In fact on most of it I don't. But I have to "enforce" their rules if I want to work. But to my states credit, their ignorance of the rule book might be promoting change. There are some places now that think halves are a good idea, some others who think replay is a good idea, and maybe after this year might think shot clocks are a good idea. If you don't try new things you never know what could improve the game. That doesn't mean it will work and always be that way, but you might have to try once in a while. I mean men's NCAA tried table side with the calling official and now switched back. Experiments don't mean forever.

just another ref · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 07, 2007, 01:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun

Since your state has ignored the rule book.........

This provokes a question which I have wondered about before. What, exactly, is the NFHS and what is its authority to make and impose rules such as these to which we so often refer? Apparently individual states, or portions of states, have the freedom to ignore certain portions of the rules. If NFHS learns of this, is there ever any kind of penalty involved for this noncompliance?

Nevadaref · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 07, 2007, 02:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref

This provokes a question which I have wondered about before. What, exactly, is the NFHS and what is its authority to make and impose rules such as these to which we so often refer? Apparently individual states, or portions of states, have the freedom to ignore certain portions of the rules. If NFHS learns of this, is there ever any kind of penalty involved for this noncompliance?

Yes, if a state elects to deviate from the NFHS rules then that state forfeits its right to submit rule changes to the NFHS committee and also loses its ability to have a representative sit on the national rules committee.

That's the penalty. As an example, the state of CA currently suffers this in order to employ a shot clock for both boys and girls games.

TD21 · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 06, 2007, 05:30pm

My point is would any of you like me or others to respond to everything you poat and tell you why I think you are wrong? Wether I'm right you're right or neither of us is right? Because that seems to be what some like to do. I guess if that's what you feel you need to do then great. Wonder what would happen if the same was done to you? We can all play devils advocate if you will on a lot of the enforcement of the rules in the game of basketball. I'm just saying that some of you feel that your way is the only way. And dare I say...............YOU'RE NOT ALWAYS RIGHT!!! oh but you think you are, we all do. its ok to be shown a different way once in a while.

rockyroad · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 06, 2007, 05:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TD21

My point is would any of you like me or others to respond to everything you poat and tell you why I think you are wrong? Wether I'm right you're right or neither of us is right? Because that seems to be what some like to do. I guess if that's what you feel you need to do then great. Wonder what would happen if the same was done to you? We can all play devils advocate if you will on a lot of the enforcement of the rules in the game of basketball. I'm just saying that some of you feel that your way is the only way. And dare I say...............YOU'RE NOT ALWAYS RIGHT!!! oh but you think you are, we all do. its ok to be shown a different way once in a while.

If I was posting something that was wrong (which has been known to happen every now and then), I would hope that my colleagues on this board would tell me I was wrong and tell me why I was wrong. And if I continued to defend that wrong position, I would hope that they would shoot me to pieces. And if I still tried to defend that position and told them to "go to hell because I'm right and you're the ones that are wrong", well, that would just be silly now, wouldn't it...people who do try that tend to get some vicious responses. Most important of all to the long-timers on this board is protecting the integrity of the game - and if that takes a 2x4 upside someone's head, well by golly JR will be there to do it (and provide his own lumber to boot).

Oh, and btw, you're still wrong.

Jurassic Referee · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 06, 2007, 05:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TD21

My point is would any of you like me or others to respond to everything you poat and tell you why I think you are wrong? Wether I'm right you're right or neither of us is right? Because that seems to be what some like to do. I guess if that's what you feel you need to do then great. Wonder what would happen if the same was done to you? We can all play devils advocate if you will on a lot of the enforcement of the rules in the game of basketball. I'm just saying that some of you feel that your way is the only way. And dare I say...............YOU'RE NOT ALWAYS RIGHT!!! oh but you think you are, we all do. its ok to be shown a different way once in a while.

And my point, again, is:

DON"T TELL US WHAT TO POST!!!!

Post whatever the hell that you want to post. Respond to whatever you want to also. Make any point that you feel like making. But do NOT tell anybody else what they can post or not post here. That ain't your job.

Lah me......

rockyroad · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 06, 2007, 05:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And my point, again, is:

DON"T TELL US WHAT TO POST!!!!

Post whatever the hell that you want to post. Respond to whatever you want to also. Make any point that you feel like making. But do NOT tell anybody else what they can post or not post here. That ain't your job.

Lah me......

Uh-oh...here comes that 2x4 I was talking about on the last page.

tomegun · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 06, 2007, 05:53pm

I'm not sure I understand the OP's alternative. Do you want someone to ignore wrong posts? If that were to happen, and a young officials is looking at a thread, what does that do to the game of basketball? Everydody doesn't live in MN, but if you say something wrong and nobody points it out there is a possibility that one official will take your word as the gospel and run with it. Even defending something wrong like you are doing is...wrong.

If you didn't already know this, there are many Alpha males (females too) on this board. Telling them what not to post just isn't going to work when they have rules references to back up what they are saying. You can keep trying, but your trying will be in vain.

Jurassic Referee · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 06, 2007, 05:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Uh-oh...here comes that 2x4 I was talking about on the last page.

Rocky, there's one helluva difference between disagreeing with somebody or telling them that they can't post something because someone else might disagree with it.

Iow, I don't have too much patience with someone who falls off a turnip truck, hears the noise, wanders in the side door and then proclaims himself the Master and Sole Keeper Of The Mores And Customs Of The Forum. I kinda figure that's up to Brad and the mods.

Jurassic Referee · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 06, 2007, 07:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Post whatever the hell that you want to post. Respond to whatever you want to also. Make any point that you feel like making. But do NOT tell anybody else what they can post or not post here. That ain't your job.

RIF.

JRutledge · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 06, 2007, 05:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That one is simple. The person in charge of your conference is wrong.

Actually you are incorrect. The CCA Requirement is only for Division 1 officials. Other can follow if the choose when or how they can apply their own standards. A good example of this is the color of the shirt used at the JUCO level in many parts. Those officials can and do use the grey shirts and you do not see anything in the CCA Manual that requires such a thing. This jacket falls under the same situation. The reality is that all lower level college conferences have not required their staff to wear these jackets and even have different expectations because not all officials will have the old jackets. Unless this guy works at the D1 level, his assignor has the right to expect different things.

Peace