Personal Flagrant Mechanic

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You cannot have an intentional foul that is flagrant. EVER! The penalties are also NOT the same. EVER!

At the risk of being called mean ol' JR once again, I gotta say you really should get into the rulebook a little bit more.

Rule 4-19-3 defines an intentional foul. Part of the definition states "Intentional fouls may or may not be premeditated and are not based solely on the severity of the act." It also says that "causing excessive contact with an opponent" may also be an intentional foul.

Rule 4-19-4 defines a flagrant foul. Part of that definition states that they involves violent contact or fighting.

Note....excessive contact vs. violent contact. That's one of the ways that they differ. The official has to make the judgment as to which applies.

The penalties are different as to whether the player committing the foul gets tossed or not. That's a heckuva big difference in penalties.

What do you do when you have a flagrant foul AFTER the player ejection? What do you do after an intentional foul? Are they the same? I understand that you have an ejection with a flagrant....As I said earlier, unless you have a fight where all hell has broken loose and you don't ever even give the preliminary signal for the foul anyway, if it is a play at the basket for instance, I see a benefit of signaling the intentional foul initially, then figuring out if you have a flagrant...maybe I am "changing my call" at that point if I go to the flagrant, either way I get to the same place...or are you going to tell me next that I can't "change my call" from intentional to flagrant when I get to the table? Have I committed myself to "only" the intentional once I signal it? What if you just signal a personal foul preliminarily thinking that you have a flagrant, then you are asking yourself as you walk to the table "geez was that "violent" contact or just "excessive" contact"...then you decide "well it really wasn't that violent, it was just excessive". So now you get to the table and now you have to report an intentional foul when you never signaled one with your preliminary signal...makes more sense to me to signal the intentional to begin with if you have it, then decide if you are going to eject a player if the contact is deemed "violent"....again, gives you a chance to huddle w/ partners, etc, take your time before you send a player to the showers....