Question from Missouri

[Vinski]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Penalized one time for each starter and substitute as per NFHS 10-3-2PENALTY. Must be discovered before the ball becomes live.

See Situation #2 on the 2007-08 Interpretations on the FED web site.

Question regarding this. When it says “Must be discovered before the ball becomes live”, what would be the case if the five starters with illegal uniforms enter the court for the tip-off and the officials don’t notice that the uniforms are illegal before the toss. The ball is then tossed and becomes live and then play goes on for a while. During the next dead ball an official then notices that the uniforms are illegal. At this point can the ref asses the technicals to the five starters or has that time come and gone. To summarize my question, is there a statue of limitations to enforcing this rule? Can the penalty only be carried out if discovered during the first dead ball that the player(s) enter the court?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Vinski

Question regarding this. When it says “Must be discovered before the ball becomes live”, what would be the case if the five starters with illegal uniforms enter the court for the tip-off and the officials don’t notice that the uniforms are illegal before the toss. The ball is then tossed and becomes live and then play goes on for a while. During the next dead ball an official then notices that the uniforms are illegal. At this point can the ref asses the technicals to the five starters or has that time come and gone. To summarize my question, is there a statue of limitations to enforcing this rule? Can the penalty only be carried out if discovered during the first dead ball that the player(s) enter the court?

It's only penalized when the player enters the game. So, in your example, the starters would not be penalized until they left the game and then returned. If they never return, they are not penalized.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by refnrev

Just curious, Truerookie. Is Missouri doing their own thing instead of following regular Fed protocol?

No, Missouri realized that some schools may have ordered the wrong uniforms.

[Vinski]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It's only penalized when the player enters the game. So, in your example, the starters would not be penalized until they left the game and then returned. If they never return, they are not penalized.

I see (I think). So, would it be safe to say that a player can only be penalized for the illegal uniform when discovered upon entry onto the court during a dead ball or start of the game/OT, not just any dead ball period? And only once per player, of course.

[refnrev]

Originally Posted by truerookie

No, Missouri realized that some schools may have ordered the wrong uniforms.

___________________________

After knowing about this change for four years? Interesting.

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by refnrev

___________________________

After knowing about this change for four years? Interesting.

The home team is still obligated to wear white, see point #4.

[SWMOzebra]

It was my understanding from the Springfield meeting that 1 technical foul was to be issued for illegal uniforms as opposed to 1 for each player entering the game in an illegal uniform. Perhaps the local rules guru here hadn't seen the memo from MSHSAA either.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by SWMOzebra

It was my understanding from the Springfield meeting that 1 technical foul was to be issued for illegal uniforms as opposed to 1 for each player entering the game in an illegal uniform. Perhaps the local rules guru here hadn't seen the memo from MSHSAA either.

Correct, he cleared that up in Lebanon on 16 Oct 2007.

Originally Posted by budjones05

Hey, I went to the Warrensburg Rule Meeting and I was wondering if you can help me understand some of the new rules.

1. If a illegal uniform is found, the starting 5 gets one t each. Any sub that enters, they will be hit with a T as well. Does this mean that each time the same sub comes in and then comes out gets a T?

Only penalized once per player. Note: Kansas has set aside that rule as too onerous and instead has implemented a "One T" rule. One team technical for all violations. Better check with MSHSAA to make sure they are not following suit.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by KSRef07

Only penalized once per player. Note: Kansas has set aside that rule as too onerous and instead has implemented a "One T" rule. One team technical for all violations. Better check with MSHSAA to make sure they are not following suit.

"following suit" HAHAHAHA - is this the "pun" thread?

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

"following suit" HAHAHAHA - is this the "pun" thread?

I guess I am at the "top" of my game.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

When do team members on the bench become players?

3-3-3
A substitute becomes a player when he/she legally enters the court.

A player becomes bench personnel after his/her substitute becomes a player....

And as Jurassic pointed out, these technical fouls are listed under player technicals in section 3 of Rule 10, not substitute technicals (section 2) or bench technicals (section 4).

My point was the technical is one or the other, it cannot be both, can it?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by just another ref

3-3-3
A substitute becomes a player when he/she legally enters the court.

Right! So all those bench personnel people become players as soon as they come on the floor (legally) for the jump ball. They are players, not substitutes; so any technical for the illegal jersey will be a player technical and NOT charged indirectly to the head coach.

My point was the technical is one or the other, it cannot be both, can it?

You are correct, because a team member cannot be both a substitute AND a player. Therefore, any technical foul assessed to a team member must be EITHER a substitute technical OR a player technical.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by KSRef07

Only penalized once per player. Note: Kansas has set aside that rule as too onerous and instead has implemented a "One T" rule. One team technical for all violations. Better check with MSHSAA to make sure they are not following suit.

BTW I believe that is how the NCAA does it.

[dblref]

Originally Posted by eyezen

Bud, although correct by rule, the interpreter at your meeting apparently didn't get the memo from Columbia:

Truerookie is correct, the last sentence of point #3 sums it up...

http://www.mshsaa.org/Activities/Inf...tory&storyid=4

Sentence #4 sates: "Designated varsity home teams that do not have the required home white jerseys shall be issued the required technical foul penalties." In sentence #5, it states this isn't true for sub-varsity contests.