Friday night.

[Bart Tyson]

I agree with BktBallRef. This is not a new rule. I also would not have a problem sending the coach on his way since my partner is going to show 3 T's. However, if my partner is the R, and he says no ejection, then for this game i am going to back him.

[moose69]

personally I disagree with the principle of the rule, that you can't dunk in the warm up. I don't see what it accomplishes. I could understand how you don't want anyone hanging on the rimm, but that's a rule all through out the game. What is wrong with people dunking in the warm up? Happens in NCAA games all the time. As I stated before, I would have turned a blind eye to atleast one of the dunks.

Tyler

[Brian Watson]

Originally posted by moose69
personally I disagree with the principle of the rule, that you can't dunk in the warm up. I don't see what it accomplishes. I could understand how you don't want anyone hanging on the rimm, but that's a rule all through out the game. What is wrong with people dunking in the warm up? Happens in NCAA games all the time. As I stated before, I would have turned a blind eye to atleast one of the dunks.

Tyler

Moose - What other rules do you decide to throw out?

[SOWB_Ref]

Interesting scenario.

I think the coach has to take the heat on this one. Ignorance of the rules is not an excuse. If he didn't know it, he should have. If he knew the rule he should have stopped it. If you see 3 you assess 3 (must have the numbers).

Couple of questions, you chose to leave the coach in the game based your partner's interpretation of the rules (smart to let him take R). If you know you are in error, fix it while you can and say buh bye to the coach. I don't think I could admit to either coach that I was knowingly enforcing a rule incorrectly.Finding out you made a mistake after it is too late to change it is one thing,but to say we know this is wrong and we aren't going to change it while we still have time, that opens a big can of worms. How would you have dealt with it, if during the game the visiting coach had gotten 3 indirect T's? Does he get to stay in the game too? If not, do you remove the home team coach at the same time?

Don't feel too bad, that is the beauty of the experience, next time you will have the wherewithall (sp?) to handle it differently.

[112448]

Originally posted by moose69
personally I disagree with the principle of the rule, that you can't dunk in the warm up. I don't see what it accomplishes. I could understand how you don't want anyone hanging on the rimm, but that's a rule all through out the game. What is wrong with people dunking in the warm up? Happens in NCAA games all the time. As I stated before, I would have turned a blind eye to atleast one of the dunks.

Tyler

The rule is in place to prevent the backboard being destroyed before the game - thus causing undue delay. if it happens "all the time" in NCAA games, it better be before the officials arrive on the court. the rule is the same on the NCAA Men's side as it is in H.S. believe me when i tell you that college coaches have a much better grasp on the rules than their h.s. counterparts (they still "think" they know more than they really do) and if an opponent dunked in pregame and you let it go - if it was one that you really, really SAW - then they'll be on your *** from tip to buzzer.

[Slider]

Originally posted by 112448
The rule is in place to prevent the backboard being destroyed before the game - thus causing undue delay.

Finally, I see the light!!! I could never understand the double standard (they dunk all the time in practice). I'm a little s-l-o-o-o-w.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by moose69
What is wrong with people dunking in the warm up? Happens in NCAA games all the time.

Yes, but in NCAA games, the refs come on at 15 minutes, leave at about 10, then come back with 2-3 left on the clock.

[112448]

Originally posted by Slider

Finally, I see the light!!! I could never understand the double standard (they dunk all the time in practice). I'm a little s-l-o-o-o-w.

what does dunking in practice (not on a game day) have to due with dunking in pregame? if they dunk in practice and tear up the backboard, there is time to fix it before a game is scheduled. if they tear it up in pregame, you may have to move game sites, you may have to wait 30 minutes to an hour for the board to be replaced and have everything cleaned up. i think it's a good, common sense rule.

am i missing something?

jake

[112448]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

Yes, but in NCAA games, the refs come on at 15 minutes, leave at about 10, then come back with 2-3 left on the clock.

NCAA Men- officials on court at 30 and can go in when and if both teams go in and are suppossed to be back on court when one team is back on the court. i know that doesn't happen every time, but by the CCA manual, it should. if you see something different happening - you can take solice in the fact that that officiating crew isn't doing it right.

jake

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by Brian Watson

Moose - What other rules do you decide to throw out?

I'll take a crack at it for ol' Moose.

* Three seconds in the key (tell them to get out)

* T for subs standing during a free throw (tell them to sit down)

* T for a player coming on the court without being beckoned. (tell them to go back untill properly beckoned)

* T for assistant checking book during a time out (tell them to go back to the bench)

* T for profanity during a missed shot directed at no one in particular and not loud enough for anyone else to hear. (tell them to watch their language)

I hear you Brian Watson about throwing out the rules...but give me a break, you are going to rake a guy because he decides to "turn a blind eye to at least one of the dunks"!

Make the punishment fit the crime. Get one guy, give the coach an indirect, and get on with the game. This is how I will officiate...lets see if I move up!

RookieDude

[Brian Watson]

I can see a coach not getting on you about telling a sub to sit down. But if the other coach was on the ball, he would have raised h*ll about misapplying the rule in this situaton. I can't speak for every state or area, but if three guys dunked here, and the opposing coach saw it, you can bet your next game check if I am not ringing up three guys and showing the coach the door, at the very least, there will be a letter to the state. Don't know about you, but that is not one meeting I want to have, nor a situation I want to explain.

The other things you mention are "preventative" officiating things, you can educate the kids as you go. Once you put one down, god and the world has seen it, and you need to take care of business no matter how unpleasant.


Speaking on this topic, let's say you have three kids dunk, and the coach is now ejected. When does he have to leave? At that moment? After intros and before you shoot the T's? I don't think the book addressed pre-game ejections. Same with players, let's say he throws a punch during warm ups, is he allowed to finish pregame drills or does he have to grab bench right then?

[Rookie]

why would you let an player or coach, who is ejected, hang around? Once they are tossed, get them out of there.

[Bart Tyson]

Brian, If that is the way your supervisor wants it in your area, then you have two choices. 1) good job with the T's. or 2) try to change your supervisor's mind. No offense to anyone.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by 112448

NCAA Men- officials on court at 30 and can go in when and if both teams go in and are suppossed to be back on court when one team is back on the court. i know that doesn't happen every time, but by the CCA manual, it should. if you see something different happening - you can take solice in the fact that that officiating crew isn't doing it right.

jake

I know what's supposed to happen, but it never does (at least in games where I've worked game management).

[Brad]

Originally posted by 112448
the rule is the same on the NCAA Men's side as it is in H.S.

Not quite.

Under NCAA rules a pre-game dunk is an indirect technical which does not count towards the 5 fouls for disqualification for the player, nor towards the team fouls, and is certainly not an indirect to the head coach.

It does count against the player as an indirect technical and if he dunked three times during the pre-game he would be ejected.