Speaking of Visible Counts..Part 2

[FrankHtown]

You are lead in a 3 person game. The ball is passed into the low post. You, as Lead, square up to accept the play. Player A starts dribbling with his/her back to the basket. Defender B is within 6 feet, both feet on the floor, facing the dribbler. Does the Lead start a 5 second closely guarded count?

I've heard yes the Lead does, and no the Lead doesn't. I've heard if the Lead does start a count, it's a clear signal to the Trail to go off-ball (which the trail should be once the Lead goes on-ball). I've also heard the Trail should be counting (therefore, on-ball) so the Lead can concentrate on the paint.

Thoughts...opinions??

[jeffpea]

In NFHS and NCAA-Men, the lead does not visibly count the play you've described above or any other situation that might occur.

NCAA-Women may have different mechanics...someone who works NCAA-Women will post shortly, no doubt.

[JRutledge]

Lead officials in the pure mechanics of NF and NCAA Men's do not have the lead do this. Maybe a supervisor or assignor has a different opinion, but I have never been told by anyone in any decision making situation that this is a good idea. The Lead in a 3 Person is supposed to be watching post play, not counting this kind of violation.

Peace

[Splute]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Lead officials in the pure mechanics of NF and NCAA Men's do not have the lead do this. Maybe a supervisor or assignor has a different opinion, but I have never been told by anyone in any decision making situation that this is a good idea. The Lead in a 3 Person is supposed to be watching post play, not counting this kind of violation.

Peace

I do not have 3-person mechanics down by any means so let me make sure I understand what you are saying. You are only stating that the Lead does not "visibly show" a closely guarded count, but he is responsible for it? Or are you saying he is not responsible for it and never counts a closely guarded?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Splute

I do not have 3-person mechanics down by any means so let me make sure I understand what you are saying. You are only stating that the Lead does not "visibly show" a closely guarded count, but he is responsible for it? Or are you saying he is not responsible for it and never counts a closely guarded?

I will take it a step further. If you read the CCA Men's Mechanics book on page 103 (under Section 20: Counting), Article 3 addresses 5 second counting. There is a diagram that divides the court for the Center and Trail officials (only) and their counting responsibilities.

So the answer is only the C and T does the counts for 5 second counting in Men's basketball. My state does not use the NF books anymore, but the books used to have a similar diagram in the book. I know that it is not taught where I live to ever have the Lead count. As a matter of fact a camper was told not to at all during a camp I attended this past summer.

Peace

[Scrapper1]

In NCAA-M, the Lead is not responsible for the 5-second closely guarded count. The Trail will visibly count and make the call if the violation occurs.

I thought that in NFHS, the Lead took the count. But since others have said this is not correct, I guess I could be wrong about that.

[Scrapper1]

The NFHS official's manual for a crew of three officials used to say, "Each official has an area of primary coverage for fouls and violations on and off the ball in that area." Sounds to me like they want the Lead to take violations in the Lead's primary area.

That was a few years ago, though, and I don't have a current NFHS manual.

[truerookie]

NCAA-W there is no 5 second count on a dribble. Also, distance must be 3 feet or less and the dribbler must be holding the ball to start your 5 second count.

The closely guarded count can be conducted in the BC as well as the FC.