Verbal Abuse of Coach to Players

[PAULK1]

So let me get this... Its ok for the coach to scream at jimmy, G*& D*&^ jimmy you better block his A&& out next play or your on the F#$%# bench for all to hear during the TO and this is considered motivation and not unsportsman like but the other coach who steps a millimeter out of the box to say thats a horrible call is rung up immediately!
What a sad commentary on our game.

[daves]

Originally posted by PAULK1
So let me get this... Its ok for the coach to scream at jimmy, G*& D*&^ jimmy you better block his A&& out next play or your on the F#$%# bench for all to hear during the TO and this is considered motivation and not unsportsman like but the other coach who steps a millimeter out of the box to say thats a horrible call is rung up immediately!
What a sad commentary on our game.

I agree with your assessment. It's like we have a double standard here. My point is that I would like to see the parents step forward in this situation. If I were a parent of one of the players and I felt that a coach was abusive I would do something about it. In the situation mentioned I believe that the coach was the principal of the school as well. Going to the principal is not an option here. Maybe this guy is on some kind of power trip and likes to rule with an iron fist. Maybe the threat of going to childrens services would tone it down a bit. There is more to abuse than physical abuse. If my 4 year old were sitting with me in the stands and heard profanity and other abusive behavior directed toward children, I would be extremely ticked.

[Slider]

Originally posted by daves
...My point is that I would like to see the parents step forward in this situation...Maybe the threat of going to childrens services would tone it down a bit

Maybe the parents are waiting for the officials to act, everybody is waiting for everybody.

If his language is really over-the-top (guess that's in the ear of the beholder, but we are paid to judge); then issue a T, just like 2.8.1 COMMENT says we should.

The T's will change his behavior, at least in your games.

[bluezebra]

"And personally I am not of the camp that there really is such a thing as "verbal" abuse."

Were you raised in a Monastery?

Bob

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Slider

Maybe the parents are waiting for the officials to act, everybody is waiting for everybody.

If his language is really over-the-top (guess that's in the ear of the beholder, but we are paid to judge); then issue a T, just like 2.8.1 COMMENT says we should.

The T's will change his behavior, at least in your games.

Great, let them have us call a T on their team that makes them lose. Really good use of your power. Now who is on the power trip. They will not blame the coach, they will blame you. Leave this SH!T alone please!!!!

To some of you the usage of "Jesus Christ" is over the top, let us really use better judgement than that.

Peace

[Slider]

I'm not looking for T's, I'm just trying to follow the guidance given to me from NFHS; its called the Rules/Cases.

I can't understand why an person would go into a profession (officiating) which is all about administering rules and penalizing other people for breaking rules, and then wants to ignore rules himself.

But, that is neither here nor there.

I would guess that 95% of the officials here would T a player who goes into a profanity laced yelling rage on the court--no matter who he is yelling at.

Apply the same standard to the coach--he is supposed to be a professional and follow good standards of behavior that his players will emulate.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Slider
I'm not looking for T's, I'm just trying to follow the guidance given to me from NFHS; its called the Rules/Cases.

I can't understand why an person would go into a profession (officiating) which is all about administering rules and penalizing other people for breaking rules, and then wants to ignore rules himself.

But, that is neither here nor there.

I would guess that 95% of the officials here would T a player who goes into a profanity laced yelling rage on the court--no matter who he is yelling at.

Apply the same standard to the coach--he is supposed to be a professional and follow good standards of behavior that his players will emulate.

For general rules knowledge and application really come from the casebook. I see nothing in the casebook that suggests what you claim. A coach and a player are two different levels. A coach is an adult, a player is not (at least at the HS level). Whether you realize it or not, you behavior better be different towards both.

Look, I am not a social worker. I did not become an official to save children from coaches. And I do not consider it unsportsmanlike for a coach to get on a player.

You go ahead and do that, do not be surprised if it is you in the end that takes the fall. Remember, you are going to give the other team 2 shots and the ball for giving this kind of T. So while you made a point to the coach, you hurt the kids and changed the momentum or lack there of by doing what you feel is "right." You might have to do more than T the coach to get you out of that mess.

It might be a rule, but you have to use common sense. Neither is it come, or does it make sense. Talk to the school board if it makes you feel better. Do not hurt the kids twice by your actions.

Peace

[drinkeii]

Just my opinion, but the comment that foul language was overheard by the refs, whether or not it was "intended" to be heard, would be enough for me to either warn the coach, or T him up right away. We don't accept foul language from the kids, and certainly shoulnd't allow it to be used during the game (timeouts and quarters included) by the adults responsible for them. We penalize a kid for swearing at themselves (or we should be, since it is an extention of the classroom, and as a teacher also, I do this in the classroom as well as outside as a sports official), and the adults are supposed to be held to a higher standard.

[Slider]

Originally posted by JRutledge
...For general rules knowledge and application really come from the casebook. I see nothing in the casebook that suggests what you claim

What about 2.8.1 COMMENT, on page 9, especially the last sentence? Can it be any clearer than that?

[Bart Tyson]

I think what some of us are struggling with is the orignal post. Hear foul language( maybe needs to be more specific). He also says not loud enough we "should" hear. He can't be yelling in his huddle. I have heard a coach say D@m in huddle and i never considerd giving a T. Some of the other replies are indicating this guy is yelling curse words left and right. I didn't read this in his post.

[Slider]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Some of the other replies are indicating this guy is yelling curse words left and right. I didn't read this in his post.

And I am only pointing out that there is a threshold that earns a T.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Slider

What about 2.8.1 COMMENT, on page 9, especially the last sentence? Can it be any clearer than that?

Doesn't that deal with spectators? Maybe I'm missing the key sentence.

[Slider]

Originally posted by bob jenkins
What about 2.8.1 COMMENT, on page 9, especially the last sentence? Can it be any clearer than that?...//...Doesn't that deal with spectators? Maybe I'm missing the key sentence.

bob, there are COMMENTS and then there are Comments . 2.8.1 COMMENT is on page 9, it is the very first "situation" under UNSPORTING BEHAVIOR.

[paulis]

I, too, am of the sentiment that you have to leave this alone. Obviously his behavior has been observed and noted by somebody above him, the school's A.D. or higher. If he is being allowed to coach after passing this scrutiny then I do not see how we as officials can do anything here. If I am unfortunate enough to work a game with this type of coach I tell the players to relax, lhave some fun because that is what they are supposed to do and that is exactly what I am going to do.

[JRutledge]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Slider

What about 2.8.1 COMMENT, on page 9, especially the last sentence? Can it be any clearer than that?

See the problem is, you see it as UNSPORTING to yell at the kids by a coach. I personally do not.

The use of "foul language" has nothing to do with being unsporting itself. You can do other things and not open your mouth and get a T. So what the heck are you so focused on the language for?

If you want to go ahead a T everyone for saying something that you and only you hear, then do that. You have the right if you choose. I think you are wrong and I think that the rulebook and the casebook does not support it. My question to you is why do you not let the school handle those things. They do all the time. It is not like we are the one's kids they are yelling at, or they are not representing us at this game.

Foul language and the use of it is very overrated to me. If I got upset or tried to give T for every single time I heard it, I would not have players on the floor and fans in the stands. This is not church or worship time. This is a sport where emotions off all kinds come out in the heat of it. I am not condoning anything, but I am not going to penalize a kid or coach just because they use a word that might be profane. And if that is the case, it would be very difficult to officiate anything.

I think there are much bigger fish to fry. But then again, that is my opinion. I think this is an area thing. If you were to do that in many circles, you would be doing rec. ball. And you could not even do rec. ball because the language all the way around can be bad.

Peace

PS. The COMMENTS talk about profanity, not abuse. It is not my job to judge what is abusive, when you do not have to use profanity to be abusive. But then again, I am not a social worker and I am not going to give Ts that will hurt the kids and the blame of losing is going to be on my shoulders. If I deam it necessary, I can right a report to the state, but I would not even do that. I have been around enough coaches that got in trouble for their actions and I was not anywhere around to report it. Find something else to get upset by.





[Edited by JRutledge on Jan 28th, 2002 at 12:55 PM]