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Tue Jan 22, 2002, 10:08am
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Now I'm confused. Recently someone here on the board mentioned that there is no such foul as "over the back." I see this called in virtually every game. What should my response be to offcials who make this call?
Thanks! 
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Tue Jan 22, 2002, 10:53am
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I think everyone on the board agrees that there is no "over the back" foul. This term should be reserved for use by fans and parents of 4th graders. Some officials may call a foul with no contact when the player "behind" reaches into the vertical space of an opponent and steals a rebound. To that official you could ask : "Where was the contact?" As you know, if there is no contact, then there is no foul. mick
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Tue Jan 22, 2002, 11:20am
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To add to Mick's great explanation, there could be illegal contact. The rebounding player moved into and displaced the player, while going in the vertical space of the opponent that would be a pushing foul.
If the opponent jump up vertically and made contact with the arms that would be an illegal use of hands, or a block. Some officials will use the verbalization of "over the back" as a catch all to these situations. It isn't approved as a mechanic in NFHS, but it is used unfortunately.
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Tue Jan 22, 2002, 11:24am
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Tue Jan 22, 2002, 11:25am
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"Over the back" is what we usually refer to as "coachspeak." You just proved our point.
 Certainly a player can foul from behind on a rebound. But the foul is for pushing, not fo being "over the back." "Over the back" is not found in the rulebook. Neither is "reaching" but that's another conversation. There's nothing illegal about a player jumping from behind and grabbing a rebound over an opponent, as long as the opponent isn't dislodged or pushed. Even if there's contact, it's not a foul if both players stay within their vertical plane. Sometimes there is enough contact to call a foul but if the rebounder is still able to rebound the ball and is not placed at a disadvantage, then we do not call a foul. That hope that helps
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"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott "You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
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Tue Jan 22, 2002, 11:47am
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Go for it. But tell 'em Tony taught me.
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Tue Jan 22, 2002, 12:58pm
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I've noticed that in the lower grades, calling a push (contact from behind / over the back) is tough because they are all the same height and all gang rebound. The taller kids who can jump make it much easier to see the illegal contact. I love it when a tall player actually jumps and reaches over the vertically challenged opponent and grabs a board....the howler monkees go "bananas" begging for "over the back"....get it...bananas.....monkees.....funny....you're not laughing...nevermind Larks
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Tue Jan 22, 2002, 01:32pm
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love it when a tall player actually jumps and reaches over the vertically challenged opponent and grabs a board....the howler monkees go "bananas" begging for "over the back"....get it..bananas... ..monkees... ..funny.. ..you're not laughing. ..nevermind
Larks In my games, the coaches are usually going ape-sh$& Z
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Tue Jan 22, 2002, 03:00pm
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Why do you think they used to refer to basketball players as "cagers"?
Actually, this is true. Back in the early part of the 20th century, many games were actually played inside a wire cage (not on top, just the sides). That way, the ball never went OOB. Players would wind up with indentation marks all over their arms after the game. You may think I am making this up, but I am not. Read anything on the history of basketball in the US and you will see that the term "cagers" was routinely used in newspaper stories well into the 1960s, even though the cages went away many years before. Personally, I have never seen a match inside a cage (other than WWF), but I do remember the center jump after every basket.
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Yom HaShoah
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Tue Jan 22, 2002, 03:20pm
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here we go. I definitely enjoy the funnies. Now Mark, You remember jump ball after each made basket! WOW How long ago has that been.
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foulbuster
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Tue Jan 22, 2002, 03:29pm
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Geez Mark,
A jump after every basket. I know I am new to the game but I can't ever remember even SEEING that. How old are you? Three days older than dirt?
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I didn't say it was your fault...I said I was going to blame you.
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Tue Jan 22, 2002, 03:35pm
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Mark
Cage and cager were used in my hometown paper all the way through 1980 when I left (may still be using it for all I know!). Never understood why they used the term, but I always knew what sport or players they were referring to. Diving into somebody in the second row is much better than hitting the walls of the cage. Hope your welts are gone!
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Tue Jan 22, 2002, 04:02pm
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 :Of course,there's a lot of things from 1959 that I don't want to remember!:
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Tue Jan 22, 2002, 04:25pm
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mick
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Tue Jan 22, 2002, 05:10pm
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Guys, I was just kidding about seeing the center jump after each basket. I'm old, but not quite that old. At least that's what my old buddy, Dr. Naismith used to tell me.
 Actually, I started following basketball in the late 1950s when I used to watch the NBA on ABC (yes, they were on ABC in those days). Chris Schenkel did the play by play and Jack Twyman did the commentary. It seemed like Boston was on every Sunday playing either Philadelphia or Baltimore. That's back in the days when watching the NBA was the same as watching real basketball. Gee - I wonder what Oscar Robertson thinks about Rasheed "Captain Pre-school" Wallace? [Edited by Mark Padgett on Jan 22nd, 2002 at 04:22 PM]
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Yom HaShoah
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