The Devil's Advocate

michol · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 18, 2002, 05:17pm

Another official and myself were discussing the new changes of the game, and women officials were apart of our discussion. This is an honest answer as we are both just looking for people's personal opinions. This is not meant to start into bashing of women, or anything of that sort. Just our own curiosity of what other fellow officials are feelings. Do you think that women are capable of officiating men's basketball? If so what level do you think they are capable of calling the game at i.e HS, JC, DIII, DII, DI, and pros? Let us know your answer. And again, please do not turn this into some type of woman bashing thing!

Thanks!

LarryS · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 18, 2002, 05:26pm

I have no problem with women officiating at any level. If they have the skills and can do the job, as my daughter would say; "You Go, Girl"

I heard part of an interview with Don Nelson a few weeks ago after a female official ran him. He said he was shocked he got the first T because she normally does not have a quick trigger. Now he claims his comments about the call were not personal (yea right, he's a coach) He went on to say she, like some of his players in the part of the game he saw, were not "on top of their game that night" Then he added she is one of the better officials so he chalked it up to a bad night, one of those things. Sounds like he also thinks women can handle the top level of officiating.

bigwhistle · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 18, 2002, 05:28pm

Some women are capable of calling any game in which you put them in. Some women are not capable of calling Pizza Hut delivery.

It all depends on the individual female. Their demeanor on the court, their aggressiveness, etc. will determine whether or not they can be successful in a men's game. The players will more quickly accept the female in the game than a lot of the coaches involved. After the game starts, the players will just see her as another set of stripes (that is, if she is competent). There are many coaches who will feel that their game is being infringed upon, and that the female official should only call the female games.

There are already well documented cases of women succeeding in the mens game. There are 2 women in the NBA and there are a few women calling D1 men's basketball. There is one supervisor of men's officials of a D1 conference who is a woman.

daves · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 18, 2002, 08:40pm

Our official's association has several women officials. One of our best officials and our association president is a woman. She officiated in one of the boy's state championship games several years ago. I think a lot of the gender bias that you see is created by men who might be jealous. Just my opinion.

Doug · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 18, 2002, 09:52pm

there are men in the wnba, why shouldn't there be women in the nba, if they are good enough. It depends on the official, if they are qualified, they should do it!

williebfree · #6 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 20, 2002, 05:37pm

Yeah, what Doug said!

RookieDude · #7 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 20, 2002, 10:56pm

Official...sure, if the woman is qualified.

Fireman...No, and before you call me a woman basher, who would you rather have carry your 200 lb. @ss out of a burning building...a trained firewoman or a trained fireman.

Face it, nature made man the stronger of the two sexes. I say that with no apologies. Sorry women.

RookieDude

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #8 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 20, 2002, 11:07pm

Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude
Official...sure, if the woman is qualified.

Fireman...No, and before you call me a woman basher, who would you rather have carry your 200 lb. @ss out of a burning building...a trained firewoman or a trained fireman.

Face it, nature made man the stronger of the two sexes. I say that with no apologies. Sorry women.

RookieDude

You only correct only that one of the sexes is stronger but it has to be the female sex. As the father of two wonderful sons, there is no way in "h e doulbe hockey sticks" do I want to be pregnant and go through child birth.

JRutledge · #9 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 20, 2002, 11:25pm

Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude
Official...sure, if the woman is qualified.

Fireman...No, and before you call me a woman basher, who would you rather have carry your 200 lb. @ss out of a burning building...a trained firewoman or a trained fireman.

Face it, nature made man the stronger of the two sexes. I say that with no apologies. Sorry women.

RookieDude

I think gender has nothing to do with that. There are men that cannot pick up a bucket. I would rather have the best qualified and trained people, regardless of what the sex of that individual is. All men are not big and strong.

Peace

donfowler · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 21, 2002, 10:10am

There are good officials and bad officials and we all have worked with them.
I want my partners to be able to run the court, be in position, know the rules, and make the call.
Gender has nothing to do with their ability.

walt · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 21, 2002, 10:29am

Gender has nothing to do with it. There are people on both sides of the gender aisle that can't ref and we all know it. Male or female doesn't matter. You either got it or you don't.

walter · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 21, 2002, 10:31am

I'd rather work with a female who can ref than a male who can't. Ability to cover the floor, positioning, mechanics, and all the other good stuff are what counts. Not gender.

rainmaker · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 22, 2002, 11:06am

I must say that, in general, I have run into far less condescension and patronization in reffing than in any other pursuit I have ever followed. It puzzles me a little, because I tend to run in pretty liberal circles, and refs tend to be pretty conservative, so I've had another of my own stereotypes busted up. But overall, I feel far less objectified as a woman ref than anywhere else. I know some women that won't agree with me, but in my three years, this has been my experience.

May I also observe that from players I have no trouble at all period. If they say anything, I reply, "You have a woman ref today, so that you'll be used to it when you get into the NBA." After that, they're fine. I did a very high level 4A boys game in a summer league last summer (I was supposed to do JV in the back gym, but the partner in the big gym didn't show, so we left the strongest ref in bacck to JV alone, and the other two took the front) and for the first two minutes there was some hesitation from the players, but it didn't last. By the end, all the boys from both teams were talking to me like an aunt or something. One boy even said, "I wish my mother would do this!" That same boy would argue with me if he disagreed with a call and was even rather disgusted at some of my decisions, which I took as a compliment.

From coaches, I have lots of problems with white male coaches, but very little with African-American males. Females either treat me preferentially (Like nice dressing quarters!) or neutrally. I think black males are more accustomed to strong, authoritative females, and don't feel threatened by them. They will complain about a call, but can be talked down, and are willing to make it up after the game. Some whites can be won over, with care, but there must be some trick to it, because I don't have the hang of it yet. In fact, come to think of it, I never have figured out white males -- which is a drag, since I'm married to one and have borne three of them!!

Of course all these comments are generalizations, and are based on only one person's experience. But I've porbably done close to a thousand games, so I think I can generalize a little.

williebfree · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 22, 2002, 11:18am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
... One boy even said, "I wish my mother would do this!" That same boy would argue with me if he disagreed with a call and was even rather disgusted at some of my decisions, which I took as a compliment.

Perhaps so he can object to his mother's decisions.

Quote:

... In fact, come to think of it, I never have figured out white males -- which is a drag, since I'm married to one and have borne three of them!!

Man-o-live, you ARE a glutton for punishment!

Quote:

... Of course all these comments are generalizations, and are based on only one person's experience. But I've porbably done close to a thousand games, so I think I can generalize a little.

Over a thousand games in 3 years, I can only pray to get that kind of volume. I may work 200/year. You go Girl!

rainmaker · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 22, 2002, 11:24am

Quote:

Originally posted by williebfree
... In fact, come to think of it, I never have figured out white males -- which is a drag, since I'm married to one and have borne three of them!!

Man-o-live, you ARE a glutton for punishment!

With regard to the little tads, I didn't have a lot of choice...

Quote:

... Of course all these comments are generalizations, and are based on only one person's experience. But I've porbably done close to a thousand games, so I think I can generalize a little.

Over a thousand games in 3 years, I can only pray to get that kind of volume. I may work 200/year. You go Girl!
[/B][/QUOTE]

Not "over a thousand", "less than, but close to, a thousand." It's a little stretch, but it's easier to round off.