New Rule

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

I am in agreement here. We should enforce the rules as they are written.

Glad to see you've changed your mind.

Originally Posted by Old School

No assigner in the world is going to quiver over .3 seconds in the absence of a monitor.

No, but he will quibble over your absolute disregard for the rules if you put time on the clock without having seen the clock with time on it. Unless, of course, you're going to lie and say you saw the time on the clock.

Originally Posted by Old School

You want to fire a referee because he's off .3 tenths of a second. I tell you what. There won't be many referee's left to officiate if we do this.

Go look up non-sequiter.

No one is saying you're going to get fired for missing it by .3 seconds. You'd get fired for blatantly, purposefully, willfully, and brazenly ignoring the rules as written; which state clearly you can't put time on the clock if you don't know how much time to put on. You can justify this on whatever moral and/or civil rights grounds you want to; the fact is, you cannot do it by rule. When you disregard the rules, for whatever reason, and implement your own vision of what's fair, you make the game about you. And that is a disservice to the game.

BTW, disregard what's in red above, it's obviously not relevant to this post.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Go look up non-sequiter.

You'd get fired for blatantly, purposefully, willfully, and brazenly ignoring the rules as written;

LIked that Dictionary.com site, eh?!

p.s. it's non sequitur

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

LIked that Dictionary.com site, eh?!

p.s. it's non sequitur

Don't you need to 'redden' that second 'u'?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

LIked that Dictionary.com site, eh?!

p.s. it's non sequitur

My typo ought to be evidence enough I wasn't at dictionary.com.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Glad to see you've changed your mind.

No, that was my position all alone, you just read into it what you thought I meant and ran with it. You guys tend to do that a lot. They have a term for that, jump to conclusions. There is also a cure for it. Stop drinking the kool-aid, JR spike it.

No, but he will quibble over your absolute disregard for the rules if you put time on the clock without having seen the clock with time on it.

Who said I didn't see the clock?

Unless, of course, you're going to lie and say you saw the time on the clock.

If I put .5 seconds up on the clock, that means I saw the clock. If I call a foul and the buzzer goes off, like in the video, and I'm looking at the players, but i know my whistle occurred before the horn went off. I'm putting .5 seconds on the clock. Now, who's going to challenge that? The coach, the assigner, the video? When you start telling me what i saw as an official, then you can officiate the game cause i no longer want to work for you. If it makes you feel better, I saw .5 on the clock after I view the whistle. Feel better now? Am I lying? Am I cheating? The point is, you will never know. You can't prove it so why argue it. The point is, you have to trust the crew you have working the game that they are going to make the right decision. Leave it at that. If the officials in the video decided they wanted to put time back on the clock, the only issue is how much time should be put back on the clock. I could support any decision they made here. It is their game, let them decide how they want their game to end.

In that video, I'm going home, game over, picture perfect ending to a great game. In the NBA and college, we got to check the monitor to see how much time is left on the clock after the whistle blew. it's that simple.

[Jurassic Referee]

[M&M Guy]

Amen.

[lmeadski]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I apologize to all of you for ever starting this thread...

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by lmeadski

I apologize to all of you for ever starting this thread...

There's no need for you to apologize; you asked a legitimate question.

[Adam]

Okay, look. You stated flatly, several times, that if your whistle goes off before the horn, you're putting time back on the clock and you don't have any problem doing it even if you didn't see the clock. This is not administering the rules as written.

Finally, you leave no doubt that you'd be willing to lie if you felt it was more fair to put time back on.

I'm done here, and apologize profusely for aiding and abetting this atrocity.

[Old School]

No one is saying you're going to get fired for missing it by .3 seconds. You'd get fired for blatantly, purposefully, willfully, and brazenly ignoring the rules as written; which state clearly you can't put time on the clock if you don't know how much time to put on. You can justify this on whatever moral and/or civil rights grounds you want to; the fact is, you cannot do it by rule. When you disregard the rules, for whatever reason, and implement your own vision of what's fair, you make the game about you. And that is a disservice to the game.

I certainly agree with the fact that if you blatantly disregard the rules you should be fired. Let me give you an example of blatantly disregarding the rules. I put 2 seconds back up on the clock after that last second foul/shot attempt. That's blatantly disregarding the rules. However, if I put .5 seconds up because I reason the game is not over. That is not a blatant disregard of the rule. Fact, my whistle blew before the game ended, fact, the game is not over, conclusion, put time, however much, less than a second back on the clock. Did i see how much time is on the clock, no, but I can count a second, even a half of a second in my head, so put .5 on the clock. Check with partners to see if they have definite knowledge of time. As a crew we get together and agree .5, then it’s point 5 period.

Is that a blatant disregard of the rule. No, it is not! If it makes you feel better I saw .5 on the clock. Am I putting my spin on it. Certainly. I was tasked to referee the game, so my spin on the game is already there before this event occurred. Am I making the game about me? Only if you have short-sided, little brand-size disease. Only rulebook robots who don’t have a clue what the hell they are doing, they are just doing it, would argue that it is about me. I made it about the game. Am I doing a disservice to the game. No, the Fed. Rulebook has done and continues to do more disservice to the game than I could ever do. True, the rules must be enforced as written. Also true, I have definite knowledge that the game is not over. Are my games going to be ref different than somebody else’s. No! If a crew decides the game is over on that last second foul, then by rule the game is over. If a crew decides the game is not over because they have definite knowledge, then the game is not over by the rule.

You know, I find it really interesting that you argue so hard for such mundane rules in the NFHS rulebook. Consider the fact that when the clock shows 00.0, is the game really over? No, because the horn hasn’t sounded. I want you to think about that a minute and relate that to my argument. The clock can show 00.0 and the game not be over. How the hell does that happen? How the hell do you administer that? Tell me, what can you legally do with 00.0 showing on the clock? Can you tap and score? If you say yes, then you don’t understand what you are enforcing. So, if I blow my whistle before the horn sounds, then am I so wrong to think that the game is not over? The Fed says the game is not over even when the clock shows 00.0, but what can you legally do with 0 time showing on the clock? When you argue that I blatantly disregarded the rule. What you’re actually trying to do is to make a criminal out of someone who cares for the game more than you do, which to me is a criminal act in itself. You just hate on me because i come at this game from a different prospective.

Try not to hurt yourself taking that apart gentlemen and ladies. I got work to do, I'll check back later....

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Old School

...the Fed. Rulebook has done and continues to do more disservice to the game than I could ever do.

That just about sums it up, don't ya' think?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

That just about sums it up, don't ya' think?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

Tell me, what can you legally do with 00.0 showing on the clock? Can you tap and score? If you say yes, then you don’t understand what you are enforcing.

For the record, I really do hate responding to this troll because all it does is encourage him, but I hate like hell to think that any new officials reading this could possibly think that he'd ever be correct.

Can you tap and score with 0.00 on the clock but before the horn has gone off? The answer of course is "YES", you sureashell can. The period ends when the horn goes-NFHS rule 5-6-2. If a ball is in flight before the horn goes off during a try or TAP, the quarter ends when the tap ends(i.e.-when it's good or not)--NFHS rule 5-6-2EXCEPTION1. Casebook plays 5.2.5SitA(a) and 6.7.6SitB also both very explicitly say that Goofball's statement above, as usual, is completely incorrect according to the rules.

I understand what I'm enforcing. I learn the rules to do that. You're making up your own damn rules again because you don't know or understand the rules that we're supposed to use.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

For the record, I really do hate responding to this troll because all it does is encourage him, but I hate like hell to think that any new officials reading this could possibly think that he'd ever be correct.

Can you tap and score with 0.00 on the clock but before the horn has gone off? The answer of course is "YES", you sureashell can. The period ends when the horn goes-NFHS rule 5-6-2. If a ball is in flight before the horn goes off during a try or TAP, the quarter ends when the tap ends(i.e.-when it's good or not)--NFHS rule 5-6-2EXCEPTION1. Casebook plays 5.2.5SitA(a) and 6.7.6SitB also both very explicitly say that Goofball's statement above, as usual, is completely incorrect according to the rules.

I understand what I'm enforcing. I learn the rules to do that. You're making up your own damn rules again because you don't know or understand the rules that we're supposed to use.

as I stated before.

Originally Posted by Old School

...the Fed. Rulebook has done and continues to do more disservice to the game than I could ever do.

It's okay with me if you say you can legally score with 00.0 on the clock. It's okay with me that you can run another play with 00.0 time remaining on the clock. Just don't tell me that I can't put time back on the clock if I know there is time left. If it's okay to run a play with 00.0 on the clock, then it sureashell should be okay if I put time back on the clock when I have definite knowledge that time should be put back on the clock. Also, don't tell me that I don't know what I'm doing or I'm making up my own rules by doing so. The rules are not perfect, so give me a break. We work with what we got to work with, period, and we do the best we can with that, period.