New Rule

[Old School]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Can you show that casebook play? I am sure there is a reference somewhere.

Peace

Case play where the clock didn't start or statrted late and the referee had a 5 second count on the player with the ball. We had a violation but the clock didn't start correctly. Referee could remove the 5 seconds off the clock because he had definite knowledge that at least 5 seconds should have ran off. If there's 2 seconds left on the clock, I can count that in my head. Whether the clock starts or stops on time is irrelevent to me from this point forward.

Game management: Is there a section in the book with this title. If not, there should be. I would have it in my rulebook.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Old School

Case play where the clock didn't start or statrted late and the referee had a 5 second count on the player with the ball. We had a violation but the clock didn't start correctly. Referee could remove the 5 seconds off the clock because he had definite knowledge that at least 5 seconds should have ran off. If there's 2 seconds left on the clock, I can count that in my head. Whether the clock starts or stops on time is irrelevent to me from this point forward.

Game management: Is there a section in the book with this title. If not, there should be. I would have it in my rulebook.

Let me try again. Do you have a rulebook or casebook reference other than what you think should be in the rulebook? The reason you need a reference, is because the situation you are talking about is completely different. You can only take 5 seconds off the clock in that situation because there is something you are using as a specific procedure. And you still have no reference. Imagine that.

Peace

[just another ref]

Does anybody else think that Old School sometimes comes off like when Dana Carvey used to do his imitation of Ross Perot?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Let me try again. Do you have a rulebook or casebook reference other than what you think should be in the rulebook?

You know, what we could do is to get the mods to put OS's signature line AT THE TOP of each post, instead of the bottom. That way, we could all just ignore it, instead of feeling like we need to keep making comments and corrections.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

Case play where the clock didn't start or statrted late and the referee had a 5 second count on the player with the ball. We had a violation but the clock didn't start correctly. Referee could remove the 5 seconds off the clock because he had definite knowledge that at least 5 seconds should have ran off. If there's 2 seconds left on the clock, I can count that in my head. Whether the clock starts or stops on time is irrelevent to me from this point forward.

1. This is for taking time off the clock, not for putting it back on.
There is no case reference where you can put time back on the clock without having seen a specific time on the clock.
2. Definite knowledge is still gained, in this case play, by counting. If you're going to lie and state that you had a definite count that places the clock at .9 seconds; then your integrity is also in question.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

1. This is for taking time off the clock, not for putting it back on.
There is no case reference where you can put time back on the clock without having seen a specific time on the clock.
2. Definite knowledge is still gained, in this case play, by counting. If you're going to lie and state that you had a definite count that places the clock at .9 seconds; then your integrity is also in question.

How does my integrity come into question when I know there is time left? Whether i see the clock or not, I know there is time left. I get the fact that HS is trying to dummie it down. When we're talking less than a second, and so much of what we do is judgment and subjective. Less than a second is less than a second. At best, at worse, my judgment can only be off a second. We are in a no-win situation here Snaqs. If i acknowledge the time, one side is going to say, how can you do that, the game should be over. The other side is going to say there should be time left, and if you say, well I didn't see the clock and therefore have no idea what to put back on it. GAME OVER! Oh yea, that's gonna go over real good. To me, my opinion, go with your judgment. I've been doing it the whole game, why should I change now with the game in the balance. I gonna go with a game management call here, let the players decide the outcome not the rulebook. Most everybody, coaches, players, fans will appreciate that line of thinking and reasoning.

The only people that disagree, is the people on this forum, and you live in your own isolated world of basketball because real world, this is more excepted.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

How does my integrity come into question when I know there is time left?

I said, "If you're going to lie…." That puts your integrity into question. You could be brutally honest and say, "You know what, I know my whistle sounded before the horn. I don't know how much time should be on the clock, but I know it was roughly .4 seconds, so that's what we're going with." If you do this, though, you risk the fact that the coach who would like to see no time on the clock actually knows the rules. If he does, then the assigner is going to hate the conversation with the coach, and I guarantee the coach will win and you may very well be done working at that level.
Others might suggest your integrity could be called into question based on the fact that you are deliberately setting aside a rule, regardless of the reason. I'm not sure I could disagree with them.

Originally Posted by Old School

Whether i see the clock or not, I know there is time left. I get the fact that HS is trying to dummie it down.

No, they're trying to make it fair to everyone since they don’t allow the use of monitors.

Originally Posted by Old School

When we're talking less than a second, and so much of what we do is judgment and subjective. Less than a second is less than a second. At best, at worse, my judgment can only be off a second.

You say this as if it's an insignificant amount of time. The fact remains this decision could very well cost a team the game.

Originally Posted by Old School

We are in a no-win situation here Snaqs.

I agree with this.

Originally Posted by Old School

If i acknowledge the time, one side is going to say, how can you do that, the game should be over. The other side is going to say there should be time left, and if you say, well I didn't see the clock and therefore have no idea what to put back on it. GAME OVER! Oh yea, that's gonna go over real good.

You're right, your'e going to pi$$ off one coach regardless. So, you'd better have the rules to back you up after the game.

Originally Posted by Old School

To me, my opinion, go with your judgment. I've been doing it the whole game, why should I change now with the game in the balance. I gonna go with a game management call here, let the players decide the outcome not the rulebook. Most everybody, coaches, players, fans will appreciate that line of thinking and reasoning.

My opinion is that this is wrong and will get an official into more trouble than going with the rules.

Originally Posted by Old School

The only people that disagree, is the people on this forum, and you live in your own isolated world of basketball because real world, this is more excepted.

You really aren't this full of yourself, are you?

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Old School

Whether i see the clock or not, I know there is time left. I get the fact that HS is trying to dummie it down.

Originally Posted by Snaqswell

No, they're trying to make it fair to everyone since they don’t allow the use of monitors.

How is it fair to the team that is down that the game is now over when we know there is time left? Explain that to me. In the process of trying to be fair, we actually penalized the team that's down more. I'm sure "ALL" coaches would want a chance to try to win the game and play out that second or less. That last split second could mean the difference in a state championship, a conference championship. These are big feathers in a coaches hat.

To me, this is where adults hurt the game. The game is about the players, not our ability to legislate in writing what is fair or not. Here it is, we're trying to legislate what is fair and what we've actually done is cripple ourselves. You telling the referee he can't put a second back up because he didn't actually see it. One second? Do I need to be able to see less than a second? What if the clock doesn't show less than a second? What if the clock doesn't start when the ball hits the players hand and 2 seconds later the player scores to win the game? What if the clock starts before the ball touches the players hand and the players catches and scores but the buzzer goes off to soon? I can count a second in my head. I can count a split second in my head.

[M&M Guy]

Hey, Snaqs, go to www.dictionary.com, and look at their Word of the Day (8/6/07).

[Adam]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Hey, Snaqs, go to www.dictionary.com, and look at their Word of the Day (8/6/07).

You're a sick man, Jim.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Hey, Snaqs, go to www.dictionary.com, and look at their Word of the Day (8/6/07).

So is this Old School?