New Rule

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

That would be incorrect! You can always put time back on the clock provided you have definite knowledge, which makes this argument kind of moot.

Here's the part you're forgetting, ignoring, or just don't know. You have to have definite knowledge of a timer's error. Without a timer's error, there is no definite knowledge to have.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Here's the part you're forgetting, ignoring, or just don't know. You have to have definite knowledge of a timer's error. Without a timer's error, there is no definite knowledge to have.

Wrong again. The timer mechanism can error, the lag time between the time it takes to start and stop the clock mechanism can be adjusted by the official if he has definite knowledge. If you know it's 5 seconds left and you have a kickball violation, the clock started and stop but now it's 2 seconds. Put 4 seconds back on the clock.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

Wrong again. The timer mechanism can error, the lag time between the time it takes to start and stop the clock mechanism can be adjusted by the official if he has definite knowledge. If you know it's 5 seconds left and you have a kickball violation, the clock started and stop but now it's 2 seconds. Put 4 seconds back on the clock.

Really? What is your rules basis for saying you have definite knowledge that one second should have elapsed? Did you look at the clock when you blew your whistle? If so, you're right. Of course, this is what I said previously in this thread.

The only time you can put back on is what ran after your whistle blew.

If, in your scenario, the whistle didn't blow until 2 seconds were left, that's what you're stuck with.

BTW, if this is what you're saying, you're not really disagreeing with JR.

If you don't look at the clock after you blow the whistle, and then look up later and see it stopped at 2 seconds; you're stuck with two seconds. No definite knowledge.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Really? What is your rules basis for saying you have definite knowledge that one second should have elapsed? Did you look at the clock when you blew your whistle? If so, you're right. Of course, this is what I said previously in this thread.

The only time you can put back on is what ran after your whistle blew.

If, in your scenario, the whistle didn't blow until 2 seconds were left, that's what you're stuck with.

BTW, if this is what you're saying, you're not really disagreeing with JR.

If you don't look at the clock after you blow the whistle, and then look up later and see it stopped at 2 seconds; you're stuck with two seconds. No definite knowledge.

I keep telling you guys, you don't have to be that damn precise. Common sense it or old school it. If there's 2 seconds on the clock, and I call a violation, and it doesn't start, there's still 2 seconds. I'm not touching it, accept NBA which I don't get to work. If 1 second rolls off, I'm not touching it, but it it goes to zero and the horn sounds. I'm putting 1 second back on.

The condition is no different than if we have a game ending foul. I blow my whistle foul, and then the horn sounds. Well, we're putting time back on the clock, how much time, referees judgment. I really have no clue exactly in tenths of a second what to put back on the clock. All I know is my whistle was before the horn. I'm guesstamating .05 back.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

I keep telling you guys, you don't have to be that damn precise. Common sense it or old school it. If there's 2 seconds on the clock, and I call a violation, and it doesn't start, there's still 2 seconds. I'm not touching it, accept NBA which I don't get to work. If 1 second rolls off, I'm not touching it, but it it goes to zero and the horn sounds. I'm putting 1 second back on.

The condition is no different than if we have a game ending foul. I blow my whistle foul, and then the horn sounds. Well, we're putting time back on the clock, how much time, referees judgment. I really have no clue exactly in tenths of a second what to put back on the clock. All I know is my whistle was before the horn. I'm guesstamating .05 back.

Note to newer officials. These are the things you can only get away with if you're assigning your own rec league games; or have become a rec league legend. Don't try this in real games.

[Jurassic Referee]

Gee, I come back and Snaqs, M&M and Old School are having one of those great interlectual debates that I've heard so much about.

You three carry on. Let me know what you come up with and we'll get the rules changed.

[M&M Guy]

Interlectually speaking:

Shut up.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Gee, I come back and Snaqs, M&M and Old School are having one of those great interlectual debates that I've heard so much about.

You three carry on. Let me know what you come up with and we'll get the rules changed.

I'm reminded of a debate I had with my son last night.

"Yes."
"No."
"Yes."
"No."
"Yes."
"No."
"Yes."

I won the argument, because of my kene interlectual poweress.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Note to newer officials. These are the things you can only get away with if you're assigning your own rec league games; or have become a rec league legend. Don't try this in real games.

Okay smarta$$, why don't you tell the new officials how much time you would put back on the clock.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

Okay smarta$$, why don't you tell the new officials how much time you would put back on the clock.

Only what you see tick off after you blow the whistle. If you blow your whistle, and look up and see the clock shows 2.8 seconds, you set the clock to 2.8 seconds. If you look up and see 1.2 seconds, that's what you set it to. If, by the time you look up, it shows zero, then the game is over.

Anything else is guessing, and guessing isn't allowed.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

Okay smarta$$, why don't you tell the new officials how much time you would put back on the clock.

Yo, new officials......

Always put time back on the clock according to the rules. Specifically use rules 5-10-1&2. Also refer to casebook plays 5.10.1SitA,B,C&D and 5.10.2 for further information.

Ignore the RecLeague Ronny's who don't know or understand the basic rules(for any level), mainly because they don't own the appropriate rules and case books.

Always glad to help real officials, Old School.

[rainmaker]

Old School posts this at the bottom of every post.

Information listed here is just an opinion and should not be considered actual rule interpretation or the legal advice of this forum. Consult your rulebook if in doubt.

I hope that newer officials take it seriously!

[Adam]

Here's the proof you requested, from post 109 of this thread:

Originally Posted by Old School

I keep telling you guys, you don't have to be that damn precise. Common sense it or old school it. If there's 2 seconds on the clock, and I call a violation, and it doesn't start, there's still 2 seconds. I'm not touching it, accept NBA which I don't get to work. If 1 second rolls off, I'm not touching it, but it it goes to zero and the horn sounds. I'm putting 1 second back on.

The condition is no different than if we have a game ending foul. I blow my whistle foul, and then the horn sounds. Well, we're putting time back on the clock, how much time, referees judgment. I really have no clue exactly in tenths of a second what to put back on the clock. All I know is my whistle was before the horn. I'm guesstamating .05 back.

Everything in red is in direct contradiction with the rules.

A good argument could be made for what's in blue.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Here's the proof you requested, from post 109 of this thread: Everything in red is in direct contradiction with the rules. A good argument could be made for what's in blue.

yea, but everything in red is absolutely correct for the NBA which I referenced, even with the actual rule.

What's in blue, again with viewing the context in which it was wriiten is correct. Read the example that follows.

I could write my own rulebook, and it be better than Fed.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

yea, but everything in red is absolutely correct for the NBA which I referenced, even with the actual rule.

No, it's not. The NBA officials don't "guesstimate." They have replay monitors to determine exactly how much time to put back on.