New Rule

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Old School

Here's the deal. The people you are debating this rule with, believes there is nothing wrong with this new rule, everything is okay. Simple. Now you know why the rulesets are so different between college, hs and pros. There are too many one track minded people in this industry and they don't think out the right side of their brain. There's also something in the water. This is by far one of the dumbest rules federation as come out with. Everyone on this committe needs to be fired for this one. They should all resign immediately because it's clear they are not helping and i don't hink they understand the game which is another clear indication they shouldn't be there.

One more thing, you know how we get in trouble when we make bad calls in a game. Well, the committee members should take a hit for this one. We don't want this group of people making no more changes to the NFHS rule sets. No more. A slight modification was all that was needed, instead they went stupid, which kind of tells you a lot about the officials that support this new rule.

WTF?!?!?

(Used with permission.)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

WTF?!?!?

Logical and reasonable discussion just ended on this thread. That's "WTF"!

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Logical and reasonable discussion just ended on this thread. That's "WTF"!

I'm closing my eyes, clicking my heels, and saying to myself, "There's no place like home...", and maybe things will get back to normal?

So, anyway, do you think making the timing correction is reasonable? I understand your point about the timer needs to do what they need to do, but wouldn't we have the ability now to correct it?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I'm closing my eyes, clicking my heels, and saying to myself, "There's no place like home...", and maybe things will get back to normal?

So, anyway, do you think making the timing correction is reasonable? I understand your point about the timer needs to do what they need to do, but wouldn't we have the ability now to correct it?

I don't think so. JR convinced me. I'm not correcting this either way. The only time you can put back on is what came off after your whistle blew.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I don't think so. JR convinced me. I'm not correcting this either way. The only time you can put back on is what came off after your whistle blew.

But the ball isn't dead when the whistle blows, the ball is already dead on the violation. (I looked it up over lunch - Basketball Rule Fundamental #16.) I'm just saying it doesn't matter when the whistle blows, or when the clock starts and stops, there is no amount of time that should legally run off the clock in this situation. The clock should be stopped when it's in the hands of the player throwing it in, it should still be stopped when it's released, it should be stopped while the ball is flying through the air, (following me so far?), and since the kicking violation now happens before the throw-in ends, the clock should have never started. So maybe the timer started it because they weren't sure it was a legal or illegal touch (they're doing their job), but we get to stop and correct the time taken off because we have definite knowledge the clock shouldn't have started in the first place.

So, are you saying in my previous example, where the ball goes OOB with 3 sec. left, and because I'm sneezing and coughing and can't get the whistle blown, my partners and I can't correct that? Even though we saw the ball hit OOB with 3 sec. left, time runs out only because i couldn't get the whistle blown?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

So, are you saying in my previous example, where the ball goes OOB with 3 sec. left, and because I'm sneezing and coughing and can't get the whistle blown, my partners and I can't correct that? Even though we saw the ball hit OOB with 3 sec. left, time runs out only because i couldn't get the whistle blown?

My hand was up (i.e., the stop-the-clock signal), so we're resetting the clock to 3 seconds.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

My hand was up (i.e., the stop-the-clock signal), so we're resetting the clock to 3 seconds.

Oh, that's why you had it up - I thought you were just asking to go to the bathroom.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

But the ball isn't dead when the whistle blows, the ball is already dead on the violation. (I looked it up over lunch - Basketball Rule Fundamental #16.) I'm just saying it doesn't matter when the whistle blows, or when the clock starts and stops, there is no amount of time that should legally run off the clock in this situation. The clock should be stopped when it's in the hands of the player throwing it in, it should still be stopped when it's released, it should be stopped while the ball is flying through the air, (following me so far?), and since the kicking violation now happens before the throw-in ends, the clock should have never started. So maybe the timer started it because they weren't sure it was a legal or illegal touch (they're doing their job), but we get to stop and correct the time taken off because we have definite knowledge the clock shouldn't have started in the first place.

So, are you saying in my previous example, where the ball goes OOB with 3 sec. left, and because I'm sneezing and coughing and can't get the whistle blown, my partners and I can't correct that? Even though we saw the ball hit OOB with 3 sec. left, time runs out only because i couldn't get the whistle blown?

The NBA addresses this, which is why i like reading all the codes. The clock must run for at least .003 tenths (not sure of exact #) of a second when starting and stopping. And before you go there, you can't call a violation on a dead ball.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Old School

The NBA addresses this, which is why i like reading all the codes. The clock must run for at least .003 tenths (not sure of exact #) of a second when starting and stopping. And before you go there, you can't call a violation on a dead ball.

Humor me OS... Is the ball live or dead during the the throw-in (FED)?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

The NBA addresses this, which is why i like reading all the codes. The clock must run for at least .003 tenths (not sure of exact #) of a second when starting and stopping. And before you go there, you can't call a violation on a dead ball.

This is too funny, but really? .003 tenths? Now, I'm no math genius, but I'm pretty sure there isn't a clock anywhere in the world not buried in a mountain somewhere that reads time to the .003 tenths of one second.

.0003 second is an awfully precise measurement of time for a basketball game.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Old School

The NBA addresses this, which is why i like reading all the codes. The clock must run for at least .003 tenths (not sure of exact #) of a second when starting and stopping. And before you go there, you can't call a violation on a dead ball.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

So, anyway, do you think making the timing correction is reasonable? I understand your point about the timer needs to do what they need to do, but wouldn't we have the ability now to correct it?

The concept might be reasonable but we'd need a rule change or case play to do something like that. Right now, we can only make time timing corrections when the timer makes a mistake. In this particular situation, the timer did not make a mistake; he followed the rules.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The concept might be reasonable but we'd need a rule change or case play to do something like that. Right now, we can only make time timing corrections when the timer makes a mistake. In this particular situation, the timer did not make a mistake; he folloed the rules.

See there's the problem; if you're going to allow a timer to do that to the rules, anarchy reigns.

Anyway, didn't the timer make a mistake by starting the clock after a violation occured? They might not have been sure it was a violation, which is why they did their job by starting it. But we can tell them it was a violation, and correct the timing error.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

.

Anyway, didn't the timer make a mistake by starting the clock after a violation occured?

Um, no. The timer followed the direction of NFHS rule 5-9-4.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Um, no. The timer followed the direction of NFHS rule 5-9-4.

Yes, I understand the wording, and the fact that it doesn't include the distinction between legal and illegal touching. Are you also saying we cannot change the time back at all, even with definite knowledge that the clock should not have started?

Going back to my earlier example, the timer cannot stop the clock without a signal from the official, per 5-8-1(c). So, if, for whatever reason, I never get my whistle blown on the OOB, and the timer doesn't stop the clock, we can't go back and reset the clock to 3 seconds, even though we all know it touched OOB at 3 sec.? By rule, it would not be a timer's mistake. Also, let's say the timer does stop the clock, even though the whistle did not blow. Are you saying that would be a timer's mistake, and that we would be forced to take the remaining time off anyway?