Perhaps you could reference this for us. I'd be happy with either NBA, NCAA, or NFHS on this. Hell, I'd be happy with FIBA.

I'll be here until 4:00 pm pacific.

Case play where the clock didn't start or statrted late and the referee had a 5 second count on the player with the ball. We had a violation but the clock didn't start correctly. Referee could remove the 5 seconds off the clock because he had definite knowledge that at least 5 seconds should have ran off. If there's 2 seconds left on the clock, I can count that in my head. Whether the clock starts or stops on time is irrelevent to me from this point forward.

Game management: Is there a section in the book with this title. If not, there should be. I would have it in my rulebook.

That's treason!

No one is anyone's enemy. This isn't a war, it a discussion. People expressing their understanding, their experience, their opinion. No one needs to make you look like an idiot. We see you doing that to yourself. You aren't just pointing out what you think are flaws. You are saying the NFHS rules are wrong, and that people don't have to follow them. You are implying that anyone who follows Fed rules, even when it doesn't agree with their own opinion is immoral and quisling. This is simply not the case. Further, you cite the rules incorrectly and then argue with those incorrectly referenced rules.

Bad for business? WHo's talking about business? What I, and others on this board, are saying is that people who read a statement like "The official shouldn't do it this way" might think that's the actual rule when it's not, and you need to keep clarifying when you are stating your own opinion and when you are just stating a rule. You don't do that. It's confusing.

I don't drink kool-aid.

No one ever said that you can't have an opinion. I agree that everyone should have an opinion. I just have said, and I still think, that it's not fair to the players, the coaches or the game to officiate according to my opinion. The rules are there to be an impartial set of boundaries for the game. If we don't all stay within those boundaries, it's not a game anymore, just a contest of wills. If you are following your opinions instead of the agreed upon rules, you do a disservice to the situation.

Of course, this happens. Then you learn what the rule is and you follow it. RIght? Right? Or do you just keep on following your opinion? Which is it?

Okay, now are you saying that there was a situation where you weren't sure of the rule, you did what you thought was right, and then you lost a D1 assignment because of that? Or an NBA job? Or are you talking hypothetically here? This is the kind of confusing dissimulation that makes us all wonder who you are and what your real experience has been. When you say things like this about D1 assignments and NBA jobs, we'd like to know what facts you're using. Care to enlighten us?

Let me try again. Do you have a rulebook or casebook reference other than what you think should be in the rulebook? The reason you need a reference, is because the situation you are talking about is completely different. You can only take 5 seconds off the clock in that situation because there is something you are using as a specific procedure. And you still have no reference. Imagine that.

Peace

Does anybody else think that Old School sometimes comes off like when Dana Carvey used to do his imitation of Ross Perot?

You know, what we could do is to get the mods to put OS's signature line AT THE TOP of each post, instead of the bottom. That way, we could all just ignore it, instead of feeling like we need to keep making comments and corrections.

1. This is for taking time off the clock, not for putting it back on.
There is no case reference where you can put time back on the clock without having seen a specific time on the clock.
2. Definite knowledge is still gained, in this case play, by counting. If you're going to lie and state that you had a definite count that places the clock at .9 seconds; then your integrity is also in question.

Sure. I kicked some rules at a DI camp. It's not that I wasn't sure, it's just that I didn't get it done when it was my turn to step up. In fact, if I was a clinician or an assigner, I wouldn't hire me after some of the mistakes I made.

Here's the thing with me and what I've learned to date. Several years ago, I thought i was ready to do DI. Confidence sky high! After going thru the process a few times and learning the rule differences and then trying to put this all together in a high profile game. I acknowledge now, I am not ready. But each year, I get a little bit better, a little bit wiser, a little bit closer. One day, if I keep getting my chances at bat, I gonna hit that 95 mph fastball. One things for sure, I got no chance of hitting that pitch if i'm not in the batters box.

How does my integrity come into question when I know there is time left? Whether i see the clock or not, I know there is time left. I get the fact that HS is trying to dummie it down. When we're talking less than a second, and so much of what we do is judgment and subjective. Less than a second is less than a second. At best, at worse, my judgment can only be off a second. We are in a no-win situation here Snaqs. If i acknowledge the time, one side is going to say, how can you do that, the game should be over. The other side is going to say there should be time left, and if you say, well I didn't see the clock and therefore have no idea what to put back on it. GAME OVER! Oh yea, that's gonna go over real good. To me, my opinion, go with your judgment. I've been doing it the whole game, why should I change now with the game in the balance. I gonna go with a game management call here, let the players decide the outcome not the rulebook. Most everybody, coaches, players, fans will appreciate that line of thinking and reasoning.

The only people that disagree, is the people on this forum, and you live in your own isolated world of basketball because real world, this is more excepted.

I said, "If you're going to lie…." That puts your integrity into question. You could be brutally honest and say, "You know what, I know my whistle sounded before the horn. I don't know how much time should be on the clock, but I know it was roughly .4 seconds, so that's what we're going with." If you do this, though, you risk the fact that the coach who would like to see no time on the clock actually knows the rules. If he does, then the assigner is going to hate the conversation with the coach, and I guarantee the coach will win and you may very well be done working at that level.
Others might suggest your integrity could be called into question based on the fact that you are deliberately setting aside a rule, regardless of the reason. I'm not sure I could disagree with them.
No, they're trying to make it fair to everyone since they don’t allow the use of monitors.You say this as if it's an insignificant amount of time. The fact remains this decision could very well cost a team the game.I agree with this. You're right, your'e going to pi$$ off one coach regardless. So, you'd better have the rules to back you up after the game. My opinion is that this is wrong and will get an official into more trouble than going with the rules.
You really aren't this full of yourself, are you?

How is it fair to the team that is down that the game is now over when we know there is time left? Explain that to me. In the process of trying to be fair, we actually penalized the team that's down more. I'm sure "ALL" coaches would want a chance to try to win the game and play out that second or less. That last split second could mean the difference in a state championship, a conference championship. These are big feathers in a coaches hat.

To me, this is where adults hurt the game. The game is about the players, not our ability to legislate in writing what is fair or not. Here it is, we're trying to legislate what is fair and what we've actually done is cripple ourselves. You telling the referee he can't put a second back up because he didn't actually see it. One second? Do I need to be able to see less than a second? What if the clock doesn't show less than a second? What if the clock doesn't start when the ball hits the players hand and 2 seconds later the player scores to win the game? What if the clock starts before the ball touches the players hand and the players catches and scores but the buzzer goes off to soon? I can count a second in my head. I can count a split second in my head.

Hey, Snaqs, go to www.dictionary.com, and look at their Word of the Day (8/6/07).

:)

You're a sick man, Jim.

Because the rule will be the same for the next game as well; and the next game, and the next game. How is it fair to penalize the offense more thant he defense on a technical foul in NFHS rules? It's fair because it will be the same all season long. And as long as each game is played by the same rules, they all have the same opportunity. You put .5 up when it should have been .2, it could cost the game. That's why you have to have definite knowledge to put anything back up.
then it probably will show 1 second and you just put that up. Work with what you have, as long as you see it.A lot of us will keep a count, and will have blown the whistle before 2 seconds have passed. No basket. I'm sure you can. And if you have a count in your head, then that can be definite knowledge. But this entire discussion is about whether or not you can make some sort of educated guess when you didn't have a count in your head during the actual play. You can't.