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Old School Fri Aug 03, 2007 01:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1
But you completely missed Mark's entire point, which is that good officials call the rule correctly, even when they disagree with the rule. Mark doesn't think the technical foul penalty is fair; but he enforces it correctly, instead of inserting his own "judgment" or "doing what's right".

Although I don't know I'm wasting pixels on you. You're not a real ref and never will be.

If you don't think i'm a real ref then quite talking to me.

Mark Padgett Fri Aug 03, 2007 01:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old School
If you don't think i'm a real ref then quite talking to me.

I notice you didn't tell him to quit talking to you, you subtle rascal. ;)

Old School Fri Aug 03, 2007 01:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
I don't have any need to condemn you. I do feel a compunction to correct your erroneous interpretations. That said, if the above quote was an accurate representation of your part in this debate, it wouldn't have come nearly this far. You've stated flatly in this discussion that you would do what you want in spite of the rule; because you think it's more fair.

I never said that. Prove it! Perhaps my words where taken out of context but i never said that.

Adam Fri Aug 03, 2007 01:29pm

Padgett, I want to thank you for hitting that pitch. I knew you'd take a swing at it.

Adam Fri Aug 03, 2007 01:36pm

Here's the proof you requested, from post 109 of this thread:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Old School
I keep telling you guys, you don't have to be that damn precise. Common sense it or old school it. If there's 2 seconds on the clock, and I call a violation, and it doesn't start, there's still 2 seconds. I'm not touching it, accept NBA which I don't get to work. If 1 second rolls off, I'm not touching it, but it it goes to zero and the horn sounds. I'm putting 1 second back on.

The condition is no different than if we have a game ending foul. I blow my whistle foul, and then the horn sounds. Well, we're putting time back on the clock, how much time, referees judgment. I really have no clue exactly in tenths of a second what to put back on the clock. All I know is my whistle was before the horn. I'm guesstamating .05 back.

Everything in red is in direct contradiction with the rules.

A good argument could be made for what's in blue. :)

Old School Fri Aug 03, 2007 02:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ref in PA
Your version of "right" may be different than my version of right. Therefore, there must be some standard to go by - and there is. The rule book as it is currently written is that standard. We may disagree with a rule as it is written, but we are obligated to know and enforce the rules as written. Here we discuss what a rule interpretation may actually mean, and yes we get different opinions, but in most cases the rules are clear and the interpretation thereof is also clear. When that is known we must call the game that way. To not adhere to the rule book just because you feel something else is "right" is poor advice. That is what leads to inconsistency from game to game and drives coaches and players nuts.

bah, bah, bah, don't care what drives coaches nuts, they don't like, get another job. All this rulebook preaching is driving me up the wall. You guys really need to get out more.

Quote:

Exactly! You condem and deride the ref that knows the rules. To be a good official requires more than just knowing rules. But you can never be a good official without a good knowledge of the rules. You can have the best court presence in the world but still be considered a crappy ref if you don't know the rules.
True, but what stands out more, lack of knowledge on the rules or court presence? I can ref 50 or 100 games and not have a .9 second timing issue in the last minutes. Does that mean I'm a bad official? Where do you draw the line? Rule knowledge is very important to being a good official, and i never said it wasn't. I'm just saying that in the absence of that knowledge, I'm going for what I know the best, and that's what I believe is right. Now you get over it! And guess what, I'll still get games.

Quote:

This environment is for questions about rules and their interpretations.
Disagree, try reading some of the threads from the senior members, it is also for commorodity. It is also for sharing expereinces, keeping people in the know. This forum is so much more.

Quote:

Contrary to what you believe, your disagreements with rules do not add to the discussion.
Depends on who's talking and who's listening.
It may not mean much to you, but it means a lot to me. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, never forget that.

Quote:

I have read the rulebook several times. To me the rules make sense and are logical.
I'm happy for you but you still need to get out more.

Quote:

As a patched official, I MUST know the rules, I MUST keep current on the changes, my study of the rules MUST be ongoing. I lose respect for those officials who are unwilling to do this, who fake their way through games on inadequate rules knowledge.
Welcome to the real world. Careful how you use the words respect and disrespect. You would never know an official who is unwilling to do the study or another who is faking. Just look at Tim Donaghy, he was a great accomplished official, but he had a flaw. He faked his way thru games yet he was one of the best. So he would have passed your test. you see, I don't go around saying i like someone because of there knowledge or lack of on the rules. If i lose respect for someone, it would be for the type of person you are, your character, that's it. Doesn't have anything to do with basketball or officiating.

Old School Fri Aug 03, 2007 02:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Here's the proof you requested, from post 109 of this thread: Everything in red is in direct contradiction with the rules. A good argument could be made for what's in blue. :)

yea, but everything in red is absolutely correct for the NBA which I referenced, even with the actual rule.

What's in blue, again with viewing the context in which it was wriiten is correct. Read the example that follows.

I could write my own rulebook, and it be better than Fed.

Adam Fri Aug 03, 2007 02:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old School
yea, but everything in red is absolutely correct for the NBA which I referenced, even with the actual rule.

No, it's not. The NBA officials don't "guesstimate." They have replay monitors to determine exactly how much time to put back on.

Mark Padgett Fri Aug 03, 2007 02:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old School
it is also for commorodity.

Hey - I told you this guy was brillant!!!

rainmaker Fri Aug 03, 2007 03:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old School
Just look at Tim Donaghy, he was a great accomplished official, but he had a flaw. He faked his way thru games yet he was one of the best. So he would have passed your test.

He knew the rules, and other than whatever he's accused of, he followed them. He didn't fake his way through games, no NBA ref could get away with that. He certainly didn't just make up the rules that he liked. He was a great ref that knew the NBA rules cold and enforced them. Unlike you who seem to adjust the NBA rules to whatever you want them to be.

It appears as though the underlying theme in your posts here over the last few days is that you like the NBA rules and don't like NFHS or NCAA. But this board is primarily for NFHS and NCAA discussions. Why not go find an NBA board to post on, where people are more likely to appreciate your opinions?

rainmaker Fri Aug 03, 2007 03:22pm

Old School, yesterday you made some statements about the NFHS not allowing discussion of their rules, and kicking out anyone who disagreed with them. Several of us have asked for you to back up those statements, yet 24 hours later, I see no indication that you have any evidence. Would you care to clarify? Also, if you really think the NBA rules are better, is it because they allow more public input? Because they take more public discussion into consideration? Evidence?

Mark Dexter Fri Aug 03, 2007 03:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
No, it's not. The NBA officials don't "guesstimate." They have replay monitors to determine exactly how much time to put back on.

I think that they can only go to the monitor at the end of a period/game on a last-second shot, though.

I do agree that they don't just guess - they have VERY specific guidelines as to clock management.

Mark Padgett Fri Aug 03, 2007 04:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
Old School, yesterday you made some statements about the NFHS not allowing discussion of their rules, and kicking out anyone who disagreed with them. Several of us have asked for you to back up those statements, yet 24 hours later, I see no indication that you have any evidence.

Juulie - I hope you're not holding your breath. I'd hate to lose you sweetie. :eek:

Old School Fri Aug 03, 2007 04:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
He knew the rules, and other than whatever he's accused of, he followed them. He didn't fake his way through games, no NBA ref could get away with that. He certainly didn't just make up the rules that he liked. He was a great ref that knew the NBA rules cold and enforced them. Unlike you who seem to adjust the NBA rules to whatever you want them to be.

Okay, where do I start. He knew the rules, he didn't fake his way...., he certainly didn't just make up the rules he liked. BUT HE'S ACCUSED OF CHEATING, that's making up your own damn rules, that's not following the rules, and obviously he didn't know the most important rule, which by the way is unwritten, thou shall not gamble on games I worked. It's what not in the book is where i'm coming from, and not everything you need to know, or enforce is in the book.

Quote:

It appears as though the underlying theme in your posts here over the last few days is that you like the NBA rules and don't like NFHS or NCAA. But this board is primarily for NFHS and NCAA discussions. Why not go find an NBA board to post on, where people are more likely to appreciate your opinions?
Do you know where one is?

rainmaker Fri Aug 03, 2007 04:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old School
Okay, where do I start. He knew the rules, he didn't fake his way...., he certainly didn't just make up the rules he liked. BUT HE'S ACCUSED OF CHEATING, that's making up your own damn rules, that's not following the rules, and obviously he didn't know the most important rule, which by the way is unwritten, thou shall not gamble on games I worked. It's what not in the book is where i'm coming from, and not everything you need to know, or enforce is in the book.

You're saying making up your own rules equals cheating?

You, Old School, are saying that?

Wow...


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