Duke v.GaTech (long)

DrakeM · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 11, 2002, 11:47am

Ok.
Anyone watch the game last night.
I didn't, but saw the highlight of Boozer's elbow (which John Clougherty correctly called.)
THen saw the highlight of Coach K going nuts after finding out that they called it intentional. (Duke by, the way was
up 28-8 at this point!) Coach K earning a "t" for arguing with Clougherty, then once play resumed, Coach K (IMHO)
"showing" up the officials by running up and down the sidelines inciting the fans. He stayed in the game by the way.
Now. I wonder why the officials did not see fit to "release" him of his Coaching duties for the night.?
I know I didn't work the game, but watching the highlight of a clearly proper call causing such an outburst by a "legend" coach, pissed me off to the point that I wanted to throw him just watching the tape!
By the way, UCLA coach argued an intentional foul call (no brainer) against his squad in the USC game last night.
In this one, his player fouled an SC player AWAY FROM THE BALL! in fact fouled him several times before the referee had no choice but the call it intentional.
I'm rambling, but this brings me to a point that I thought about after watching NIGHTLINE the other night about fan/parent violence in sports.
I hate to say this, but to a certain extent, officials must take some responsibility for the current climate that exists today. Now, before you accuse me of not supporting my fellow play callers, I'm not talking about those who study, go to camps, work on their conditioning, and generally take this "avocation" as seriously as they do their day jobs. (which Ifeel is the majority of those who post on this board.)
I'm talking about those who do this just for the money. Who are afraid to manage a game, take care of problems, and just show up for games and get out as fast as they can.
Here in Utah, we used to have problems in the Rec programs, because so many officials would let the "inmates run the asylum," that when those of us who wouldn't stand for the bull**** worked games, we would get more crap because we took care of business! Plus we would get no support from
the Rec Director, who was afraid of backing the officials for fear that he would lose players from the league, and thus lose money!
It's marginaly better now, but that problem still persists.
I think the problem of poor sportsmanship also stems from the POWER that is held by Coaches at the College and High School level. I think at times, officials are afraid to do what is right, simply because the game they're working features a certain Coach. (Bob Knight, Coach K, etc.)
They know that throwing them can adversely affet their careers in that Conference,(Just ask Ted Valentine).
I know of officials in my state that were not assigned
State Championship games, because one of the Coaches
didn't like them.
This aspect of it boils down to willingness of Supervisors]to stand up and support their Officials and not bow down
to the power brokers. (Now I'm not a Supervisor, so I don't
know first hand what difficulties they face.)
So fans see these coaches going crazy on the sidelines with the officials not doing anything about it, and they take see that behavior as being acceptable. And they bring it down to the younger levels.
Ok, give me your takes.
Also realize that I am NOT blaming officials for the main part of the problem, just a small (tiny) part of the big picture.
Drake

Brian Watson · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 11, 2002, 12:12pm

I don't think you are saying anything new. Many of us (me included) have said for years, there are officials out there that refuse to issue unsportsmanslike penalties to coaches because their "vote" is riding on it. I work four sports and see it in all of them. I would rather work the game right, than get into the tourney because I let a coach get away with being a jerk. But, I still see guys who would rather cut their arm off before they T (Or card, or DQ) a coach or player. It is just life, and we have to adjust until someone other than the coaches has a say in who gets hired.

Hawks Coach · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 11, 2002, 12:45pm

I watched the game, Coach K deserved the original T. But then he was pulled away from the refs, sat down, and next gets up and gets the crowd going (with nothing more than a loud roar - he wasn't leading a ref you suck cheer). We all know why he did it, but I don't think that is unsporting. The crowd had bee doing the B***SH** cheer originally, and if he leads that he is out of line. But there is no rule against rousing a crowd to get back in the game and get loud again, regardless of the reason he wants it to happen. It looked kind of ugly because he was still POd, but that doesn't make it unsportsmanlike. He is going to use the full force of that loud student body behind his team to make that gym unbearable for the opposition. He's at home in the ACC. The crowd got very loud, but was not even booing they - were just screaming their lungs out.

I really thought he did it to pick his team back up (with 4 shots and ball going to Gtech there is a potential momentum shift, and his team responded to this noise), remind the refs that it is a Duke home game (not that it should matter, but all coaches in those kind of arenas believe a vocal partisan crowd will help buy them a couple of calls), and to get on the nerves of Gtech FT shooter. I was proud of Marvin Lewis for cooly knocking down the 2 FTs in that situation, especially since I am a coaching colleague of his father.

[Edited by Hawks Coach on Jan 11th, 2002 at 11:48 AM]

Hawks Coach · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 11, 2002, 12:52pm

BTW Drake M - did you see what I thought I saw - the dreaded BLARGE call? At about the 15 minute point of the first half, a Tech player drove the lane, hit a Duke player, and I thought sure I saw the Lead on the baseline emphatically signal block. Then the ball went to Duke on a charging call. If you got it on tape, I'd like to know if you see this happen. It was the second charge called on a GTech player and really set off their coach and the player, and I thought it might be because the refs didn't have the same call.

Mark Dexter · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 11, 2002, 12:58pm

NCAA 10-7-6 and 10-4-1(f) both prohibit bench personnel from inciting undesirable crowd reactions.

Q1. Has anyone ever called this or seen it called?
Q2. Does this also apply to the head coach and/or players?

Hawks Coach · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 11, 2002, 01:09pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
NCAA 10-7-6 and 10-4-1(f) both prohibit bench personnel from inciting undesirable crowd reactions.

Q1. Has anyone ever called this or seen it called?
Q2. Does this also apply to the head coach and/or players?

I guess my question is, is a loud cheer an undesirable crowd reaction? A BS chant, a "ref you suck chant," throwing things on the floor, those are undesirable crowd reactions. Getting a previously (and traditionally) loud crowd back up to the megadecibel level when a couple of calls have your team holding its head down and the crowd silenced may look kind of nasty when you do it with a POd look on your face (and right after getting a T), but is it over the line? Again, there was no booing, no nasty chanting, and nothing thrown on the floor, just an incredibly loud group scream that clearly re-energized the Duke team and may have allowed them to maintain their momentum and add to their big lead rather than sleepwalking through a couple of possessions and resuscitating Gtech.

DrakeM · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 11, 2002, 01:14pm

Hawks Coach,
Sorry, but I didn't see the call in question.

Mark,
I personally have never called it.
Second, I would interpret it to mean head coach and/or players. But Hawks Coach does bring up a good point.
The rule prohibits inciting an UNDESIREABLE reaction.
Even though I think I would take offense as an official
at what "K" did becase IMO he was showing up the officials,
I have to admit that getting your crowd pumped up can be a tremendous advantage for the home team, and that's why playing at places like Cameron Indoor is so touqh.
Now, if the Coach starts leading the "Referee,Referee,B-A-S-T-A-R-D" cheer........

And if you "t"up a coach and say "you were inciting an undesirable action," you'd better be prepared to run him!

Hawks Coach · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 11, 2002, 01:23pm

Drake,
If you were to make the call, it would have to be from the standpoint of showing up the officials, which may have been an appropriate call. But at that level, I think you gotta watch being too quick with the second T, especially just 5 minutes into the game.

secondyear · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 11, 2002, 01:36pm

The play in question - the intentional was the correct call, however during the replay the GT player who was guarding Boozer had a hold of his jersey and then Boozer reacted. Could have been, should have been, if the hold had been called would he have reacted that way? Who knows. Once again, I'm not condoning Boozer's reaction - he deserved the intentional.

Do you really think the crew was going to eject Coach K for getting the crowd into the game? I don't think so!

Dan_ref · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 11, 2002, 01:37pm

I saw parts of the game, the only reason I kept it on was
to see how the crew handled the blow-out and all this other
mess. The game was a mess, we've all been involved wih this
type of thing and I had the feeling (just a feeling) that
this game was very close to getting really out of control.
I thought they did a great job, but typicaly the announcers
spent too much time talking about the "questionable" calls.

DrakeM · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 11, 2002, 02:49pm

Ok. Hold me, I'm scared!
DId anyone notice that Hawks Coach and I
posted a response at approximately the same time, that was
simlar in thinking?
A coach and official thinking alike?!
Excuse me,but I'm headed to the fallout shelter now.
The world will be ending soon!

crew · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 11, 2002, 03:28pm

i just watched the game on espn classic and saw the 2 plays mentioned
1 block/charge play
2 intentional foul/tech

1 the officials screwed that up. lead came out from the basaline to bottom tip of circle with the block signal 3 times. then slot just took it to the table. wrong! in womens nc2a that is acceptable(i dont like it) but in mens they needed to go double foul. GT got screwed on that play.

2 i like the intentional foul. i like the tech on K. i do not feel that K needed to be ejected for getting the crowd into the game. he did not seem to be showing up the officials. maybe if he was doing the crowd thing and you gave him his first tech-ok, but not 2nd. the officials whacked him gave and him a few seconds to vent, seems acceptable to me. the crowd incident just seemed to be a way to pump up his team not show up the officials.

Dan_ref · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 11, 2002, 03:44pm

Quote:

Originally posted by crew
i just watched the game on espn classic and saw the 2 plays mentioned
1 block/charge play
2 intentional foul/tech

1 the officials screwed that up. lead came out from the basaline to bottom tip of circle with the block signal 3 times. then slot just took it to the table. wrong! in womens nc2a that is acceptable(i dont like it) but in mens they needed to go double foul. GT got screwed on that play.

I didn't see that play so maybe you need to help me a bit.
L had block, C had charge? They got together to discuss?
C went to table with block call? Is this what happened?
(BTW, does espnc plan on rebroadcasting it again? Not sure
this one goes down as a "classic"!

)