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Crashes
How would you call these:
1) A1 attempting throw-in in front court. Throws deep, offline, causing A5 to run to attempt a catch and in the process B5 and A5 colide, while A5 is attempting the catch. Is there a foul on B5 or is it judgement based on each players position at point of catch / crash (ie: no call and play on)? Could there be a foul on A5? Does the defense have the greater responsibility for contact? 2) During rebound, ball is tapped into deep frontcourt and A1 & B1 colide hard while attempting to retrieve it. Is there ever a call in this situation? |
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2) Once again just depends on the positioning of the players. Follow the same principles as above. |
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That's why we get paid the big bucks.
2 players in equally favorable positions is the key to your questions. If both have the same chance of getting the ball and the contact is not something with the hands or arms restricting movement, you typically have incidental contact...sometimes a big splat with nothing to call too. |
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You cannot tell anything about either of these plays based on the descriptions. Only thing I will say is do not penalize the defense (like suggested in #1) if the player did nothing wrong.
The bottom line the defense and offense have the same right to their positions on the floor as long as they got there first. All plays with contact do not involve a foul call. Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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Thanks gentlemen.... great answers with great insights. I am writing these notes in my book to refer to. It seems the consensus is "equally favorable positions" is the key to look for on these plays. I have fought with this one, this really helps.
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R4-27-3&5 are helpful too. |
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JR I always appreciate your rules references. I shall read it again with these insights in mind.
I also want to understand why there are, imo, so few calls on the defense while "trapping" the offensive player usually during presses (in the games I have watched officiated since getting involved). Its seems many pushing calls and hack calls are passed on. Is this game management or simply viewed as no adv/disadv? I realize this is a general comment and difficult to respond to without seeing an actual play, but in general through your experiences and those you have witnessed..... |
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Every player is allowed to their position on the floor. So if the defense legally attained their position, they are allowed to keep it. And in a trap there is always going to be some kind of contact. The issue is always is the contact legal or illegal. Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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In general, through my experiences and those that I have witnessed.....generally.....what Rut said. |
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aahhh very well explained JRut. I must be watching from a Fanboy perspective still, heavy sigh. Obviously I need more reps to see these plays thru. Your explanation covers all the angles and makes perfect sense to me. It definetly helps to have these explained by those who call or do not call them and why.
Jurassic.... ha, ha ha... too funny |
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Regarding the OP, remember that in hs ball, there is no team control on the throw in, so technically, there's no defense or offense. This is especially important if you do call a foul, since it can't possibly be a PC or TC if the foul was committed before the ball is controlled.
But it also means that regular block/charge criteria don't apply. It might be that you'd even have to suspend your normal guarding/screening types of thinking. It becomes strictly a matter of whether one player illegally takes away an advantage from the other. |
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I agree with your first comment about the number of no-calls. It's ridiculous. Just because a player unwisely gets trapped doesn't mean that he deserves to get fouled without a call. Defenders are allowed to keep their position, but you never see two defenders just standing there with their arms in the air. They are constantly slapping at the ball and rarely hitting it, instead beating on the offensive player's arms. To answer your initial question, it isn't called because coaches don't complain about it enough. Watch, though, when a coach complains about it a couple times. I guarantee that you'll see a whistle shortly after. Sad but true. I've seen it happen from the stands and on the court. Again, I'm just a rookie so what do I know.
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