"star system"

[eroe39]

I have heard several comments about the supposed star system that the NBA endorses in newspapers, magazines, and TV. That somehow David Stern tells Ed Rush to cheat for the stars and then Rush orders this to the 60 or so NBA officials on staff and everybody keeps it in house with no leaks is ludicrous. That is a very serious accusation. These same people contend that NBC conspires with David Stern who gets with Ed Rush who then gets with the NBA playoff crews to make series go the full 7 games. What about this possibility? The stars got to be stars for a reason. They are good at drawing fouls and making defenders do illegal acts in order to guard them because they are quicker, smarter, and more athletic then there opponent. They are good at fooling the referees into making them think they got fouled. Also, as a referee I know there are times when a skilled athletic player takes it to the hole and his body goes off balance I might call a foul when maybe it wasn't. However, if some clumsy unathletic player who has 5 turnovers in the game already takes it to the hole and his body goes off balance I will say to myself "Oh, that's just so and so. He always loses his balance." Now maybe he actually got fouled on the play, but as referees we don't always see the play perfectly. Sometimes, we have to take educated guesses. These educated guesses a lot of times are based on what type of player we are dealing with. Soemtimes these gets us in trouble but most of the time we are right on these educated guesses. Let me know what you all think. Do you look at each player as a number or by what type of player they are and what they are capable of when reffing a game?

[Brad]

Eli,

You are absolutely right -- it's absurd that people accuse the entire NBA officiating staff (and officials in general) of cheating. Of course, we have to remember that the vast majority of these people don't have the first clue when it comes to officiating.

Unfortunately, half a million dollars for Cuban is like fining your or me $20. I think that he's going to easily surpass a clean million this year if he keeps it up!

[DrakeM]

Eli,
I wa just thinking about the same thing you just posted, while I was on my way home from a game last night.
Why does it appear that Stars get preferential treatment?
It's because they are THAT MUCH BETTER than anyone else in the league. The NBA is full of great athletes, but only a handful of Stars. Those players can do things physically AND mentally, that sets them apart from the others!
Great point Eli.
I have never witnessed Ed Rush or Darell Garretson for that matter, tell his officials to allow the Stars to do whatever they want.
THe NBA wants its officials to be AWARE of foul counts, that much is true. But that philosophy is used at every level. "Hey, #35 has 4 fouls. Let's make sure his 5th is a good one." Anyone ever been told that by a parnter in a High School or College game? If so, you are now a perpetrator of the "star" system!

[mick]

Originally posted by DrakeM
...But that philosophy is used at every level. "Hey, #35 has 4 fouls. Let's make sure his 5th is a good one." Anyone ever been told that by a parnter in a High School or College game? If so, you are now a perpetrator of the "star" system!

DrakeM,
Yeah, I've heard that one... too frequently, yet I don't have a good response for it except my "Dumb" look.
mick

[ChuckElias]

Eli,

I'm not sure exactly what you're saying, honestly. Are you saying that there is no preferential treatment given to the star players? Because if that's what you're saying, then it's been documented to be false. I posted this previously, but maybe you missed it. I believe it was 2 seasons ago, although it may have been 3, an NBA ref got into quite a bit of trouble because he called a foul. The player he called it on complained to him about it. The official said, "I know it was [star player]'s foul. But you only have one, so I gave it to you." This comment was overheard by a player or coach on the other team, who (SURPRISE!) went nuts.

It's a documented fact that the officials try to help the star players stay in the game. It's better for the flow of the game, and better for ratings.

I agree wholeheartedly with your comments about officials conspiring to prolong a series, or to help one team win to get a better matchup in the next round of playoffs. The one thing that I think is true of officials everywhere is that they don't care who wins.

Not trying to pick a fight here, just trying to figure out exactly the point you were making.

Chuck

[BBarnaky]

ERoe39,
I totally agree with you. With the amount of time it takes to make a judgment on a play and process that in your mind, I totally disagree with people that say a "star system" is in place in the NBA.
Conspiracy theories are everywhere (NBA, the government, aliens on Mars). The staff in that league has been great and because of their intense training and education, will only get better due to good people that are in charge at that level.

[Hawks Coach]

There are a number of "unwritten" rules of refereeing that never are discussed publicly, only in forums like these. This is not out of a desire to keep things secret. It merely relfects that you can only have these kind of discussions among a group of people who understand the whole context in which these rules exist and why they do 9most of the general population doesn't know anything other than you can call three seconds during rebounds!)

As you get to the higher levels Eli, I am sure that the expectations that you follow certain unwritten rules grows exponentially (in general -obviously there are specific situations that you need to deal with that unwritten rules may not adequately address). Because there is higher scrutiny, constant review and supervision, and higher levels of play, the unwritten rules that people follow are also probably greater.

So if there is an unwritten rule in the NBA that you have to have a solid foul to call it on a star, it would not surprise me in the least. The NBA is in the business of spending and making huge amounts of money. It would also not strike me as some sort of major conspiracy worthy of a 60 Minutes expose. The stars have earned what they get, and did not become stars because of some favored status they had before reaching the NBA.

I personally believe that officials are going to be more cautious about fouling out the star that everyone came to see rather (MJ) than fouling out Tyronne Lue. So make of that what you will, but it doesn't mean you ignore fouls, it means you are careful only to call fouls that clearly need to be called. Stars get a little more incidental contact. And stars that play rough in general have been known to foul out. It is only those stars that in general don't foul that will get the benefit of the doubt.

[Mark Padgett]

If there are any of you out there naive enough to believe there is no star system in the NBA, please read "Calling The Shots" by Earl Strom.

After reading his book, you will never have to ask that question again.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
If there are any of you out there naive enough to believe there is no star system in the NBA, please read "Calling The Shots" by Earl Strom.

After reading his book, you will never have to ask that question again.

I'd love to, but can't find a copy. Do you have one I could borrow?

I don't follow the NBA much, and don't much care, except that the way things go on TV really does affect the kids that I work with.

I do know that I saw one play by Shaq which I am quite sure would have gotten anyone else kicked out of the league for a while that wasn't even called. Shaq went up for a dunk, and was heavily guarded by Arvydas Sabonis (I do watch the Blazers occasionally). Shaq hung on the rim, and while he was hanging he lifted his feet and kick Sabonis in the chest. Although he had no reason to be hanging, he was up there about three seconds with his feet all sideways and his gunboats planted firmly on Sabonis, who fell backwards onto a cameraman. It was replayed several times because the announcers were trying to decide whether Sabonis' feet were in the "free circle" or not. No one bothered to check where Shaq's feet were.

That one play did it for me. If Rasheed Wallace had done that, he would be in jail right now, absolutely no question. I'm not defending Wallace, but I think the same standards of behavior should apply to Wallace and Shaq, and everyone else in the NBA.

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[crew]

i only wish i were a good enough official that the only complaint people can come up with is "he lets the stars do whatever." lets reverse this for a moment and say this was nba officials posting about highschool and college officials. this is what i think they would say, "these guys below us are really coming along, they are getting better fast, and keep an eye on this guy hes doing really well....etc." they are above trashing other officials on a public board like this one. maybe i take these comments about our fellow officials way to personal. or may be everyone here should look at reality and focus on our very own problems instead everyone elses.

[JRutledge]

Well, you must understand, that at all levels people feel that "certain" factors affect officials. You still always here of assumption of "getting certain calls at home." And when this is said, there is never an explaination for why this would be. So I look at the assumption of the "star treatment" in the NBA the same way. I think it has no bearing for the most part. But if MJ is one of the quickest players in the game and attacks the basic unlike anyone else in the game (I am talking past Bull days of course), who do you think is going to get most of the attention by the defense? Of course MJ or Allen Iverson are going to get fouled more than any other player. The defenses are going to attack them more than and Eddie Curry. That is just the way the game is period.

Peace

[mick]

Originally posted by crew
i only wish i were a good enough official that the only complaint people can come up with is "he lets the stars do whatever." lets reverse this for a moment and say this was nba officials posting about highschool and college officials. this is what i think they would say, "these guys below us are really coming along, they are getting better fast, and keep an eye on this guy hes doing really well....etc." they are above trashing other officials on a public board like this one. maybe i take these comments about our fellow officials way to personal. or may be everyone here should look at reality and focus on our very own problems instead everyone elses.

crew,
Ain't no one trashin' no one.
You implying that this little deal is exposing a "dirty little secret" ?
Those professional officials certainly don't have to concern themselves what we think or write.
mick

[BBarnaky]

By the way it's not called a "free circle." It's called the restricted area. There are certain rules and exceptions that apply to the restricted area. For a further discussion of this, we could start a meaningful thread and discussion of it, if someone is interested.

I'm done talking about star treatment and things of this nature. If you guys want to talk about plays, judgment and philosophy; fine I would love to engage in that. In only helps myself and others get better and exchange ideas.

The 60 man staff, is a 60 man staff because those are the best 60 guys. They have a training program to train and educate officials and prepare them for the highest and best level of all, the NBA. I have the utmost respect and enjoy watching them, personally and professionally.

[Hawks Coach]

BB
I agree, it is the best level of play, I think it is very well officiated, and when you look at games over time, the top teams make the championship, and many of the others that do not have obvious shortcomings that either prevent them from making the playoffs or send them home early. Regardless of whether Shaq gets a couple of calls a game, the Lakers (of whom I am NOT a fan) are clearly the dominant team in hoops. they deserve what they got, the rest is just whining. And if star power and glitz were all there was to making the championship, the Bad Boy Pistons out of Motwon would never have gotten past the second round and Jordan would have had a ring 2 years earlier - big star, big city - had to wait and earn his rings.

[112448]

Originally posted by BBarnaky
The 60 man staff, is a 60 man staff because those are the best 60 guys. They have a training program to train and educate officials and prepare them for the highest and best level of all, the NBA. I have the utmost respect and enjoy watching them, personally and professionally.

i agree with you that the NBA officials are just that, the 60 best officials in the country. i'd like to point out that there are 2 WOMEN on staff, both of whom i know, as a male official, i can learn a great deal from by watching them work.

jake