Does this constitute fighting ?
 

It's a boys frosh summer tourney. Teams are this season's incoming Frosh class. Championship game. NFHS rules.

I am lead. Ball bouncing around at division line. 5 kids going after it. We got scrum action, partner passes on it all and ball pops out towards the other basket. I am now moving towards the division line. 2 of the kids start running at other full speed,yelling not so nice greetings, :eek: never make it to each other because 2 other players get in the way and keep them seperated. I did the big whistle blast thing which seemed to help, somewhat. Whole lotta pushing and screaming going on. I tweet. I got 2 ejections. A little chaos but coaches are cool about the whole thing.

My partner who is doing the evaulating/mentoring thing pretty much reads me the riot act for the ejections. Says I should have just sat them down to cool off for awhile, since they never made contact with each other.. I like this guy . i respect him . I think he is a very solid varsity official. I just think he missed the boat on this one.

What do you guys/gals think ?

Judgment and HTBT call imo. You don't need contact or "fighting" <i>per se</i> to have flagrant technical fouls anyway. Flagrant acts could be swearing, gestures, etc.

If you felt that the the game was better off without the l'il sh!ts, I ain't gonna second-guess you.

Fighting is defined in rule 4. According to what my book says you got it right. Not sure I have much to say about any evaluator who would 'read you the riot act' for strongly dealing with this sitch.

Sounds like appropriate action took place to me. I don't think you can "sit" them down. The coach is the only one who decides who sits. Penalty boxes aren't in our sport.

The only way you can "sit them down" is to eject them. Well done.

I'm DOWN with that
 

Some of the refs have the philosophy that "sitting" them is okay. I think it's leakage from rec/summer ball. Had a partner try this in a JV boys game. Coach refused and the conversation was interesting. Kids ended up not sitting but it was kinda fun to watch it play out.......

Kids right out of Middle School pushing and screaming and basically acting like "little sh!ts".....no problem with the ejections.

High School Varsity game in the regular season?...still no problem...BUT, I can see, maybe, what your Varsity mentor was trying to get across.

He might have seen unsporting activity...T's...not FLAGRANT activity which is ejections. I don't know, I wasn't there. Again, "reading you the riot act" and just mentioning the two possible calls...are two different styles of "teaching". ;)

That's why you might whisper to the coach that it might be a good idea to get his player outa there to cool down a little bit, but you can't <b>tell</b> the coach to sit that player. It's always the coach's choice only.

If the coach acts this way, no wonder the players do.:(

Good job!!!! You got rid of the DRAMA!!!!

1. The actions of the players as you have described them do NOT meet the NFHS definition of fighting per 4-18. This is the case since neither player attemtped to "strike, punch or kick an opponent." So you should not charge either player with fighting. Of course, this doesn't mean that they cannot be disqualified for another reason! ;)

2. In my opinion, the actions of both players clearly meet the definition of a flagrant foul (4-19-4) as each displayed "unacceptable conduct" and that conduct was "extreme or persistent, vulgar or abusive." I would disqualify both players using the wording of that rule.

3. As others have said, an official has no authority whatsoever to prevent a player from further participation in a contest unless that player has been disqualified. Under strict NFHS rules there are no temporary benchings for cooling off.

4. In summary, I think that you got the situation right, but for the wrong reason. I think that your "mentor" needs to reexamine how he handles extreme behavior.

Nevada, I thought fighting was expanded recently to include acts that could provoke a fight. thoughts?

My rulebooks are packed away for the summer, but I thought that fight-provoking acts were only considered fighting if they actually provoked a fight.

Anyone who can verify this one way or the other?

"Fighting includes, but is not limited to combative acts such as......the usual suspects"

So I might be able to say that running at each other while yelling is a combative act..

While not the same as setting them out to cool off, an official can direct a player to leave the game for failure to wear the uniform properly.

Um, not if they are wearing their uniform properly, you can't. You also can't keep them from coming right back in either.

Why play games? Use the rules that you have; just call what happens.

RULE 4
SECTION 18 FIGHTING
Fighting is a flagrant act and can occur when the ball is dead or live. Fighting includes, but is not limited to combative acts such as:
ART. 1 . . . An attempt to strike, punch or kick an opponent with a fist, hands, arms, legs or feet regardless of whether contact is made.
ART. 2 . . . An attempt to instigate a fight by committing an unsporting act toward an opponent that causes an opponent to retaliate by fighting.

That is the text of the rule. I highlighted and underlined what I believe would make the first unsporting act qualify as fighting. If the retaliation action of fighting doesn't take place, I can't say that by rule the first act could be considered fighting. It is just an unsporting act.

You could say that, but I would advise you to deal in concrete specifics instead of trying to make a rule fit a situation. Keep it simple and go with what you've got. In this case don't bother with the fighting issue, just apply the definition of a flagrant foul to the actions of these players and use that as your basis for DQing them. It makes for a more straightforward report and you won't be second-guessed nearly as much as you would if open yourself up by trying to justify invoking the fighting rule.

Just my opinion. ;)

Not trying to sound like an esoteric, Mr Know-It-All smart a$$ nor meaning to go way off topic, but this action does not metaphorically describe a "scrum". In rugby, a scrum is a set, controlled movement to put a dead ball back in play with an equal number of positioned opposing players. A scrum most certainly is not a random, flailing, helter-skelter, looks-like-a-soccer-brawl type action. Instead, the jabillions and jazillions of people who incorrectly refer to any example of a cluster-f*** as a scrum would perhaps be more correctly describing a "ruck" or a "maul", actions to keep a live ball in play which can, indeed, sometimes appear to be a cluster-f***.

Sorry. As on old rugger it just always pains me a bit to hear a scrum (one of the few things on a rugby pitch that I actually had some skill at) so disparaged. Okay, off the soapbox and back to life as I know it........:rolleyes:

I agree that you can't send them out if they are wearing it properly, but I said for failure to wear the uniform properly.

Too late. :p

Scrum:
2. British. a place or situation of confusion and racket; hubbub.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/scrum

OUCH!:eek: That one has to hurt doesn't it CornDog.......:D

Agreed. I wasn't married to my position. I was more bored at home then anything.:D . That and i haven't played with the kids in this sandbox in awhile.....

Scrum:
2. British. a place or situation of confusion and racket; hubbub.


DOH! :o I'm taking my fat, overblown football (along with my fat, overblown, bruised ego) home and not letting the rest of you play! :p :D

But in my defense, what do the Brits know about the English language? :rolleyes:

You know, the old chap has a point. :)

There are things that I would do in summer league that I would not do in a varsity contest. #1.) ejecting players in a big game where there was no contact, might lend the opinion you are not ready to work at this level. you gonna play the biggest baddest card in the deck, we need to see blood or a viscous act, like an elbow that missed.

#2.) Listen to your senior partner because he makes a lot of sense. I'd send them to the bench or just give them a double technical. Giving them double flagrant/ejections seems overkill to me but I was not there, so I withhold my judgment on the play.

What I mean by doing things different in summer versus winter. In summer league, go to the bench. Emotions can and do run very high and out of control in this game, especially in the hotter climates of America. With that being said, I had a summer league game where I should have called a flagrant or at least an intentional, but hesitated and it turned out to be the worse game I ever had because retaliation and it was a mess. Parents squared off on each other at the end of the day. My point is, don't hesitate to take care of business and it sounds like you did, you just did it too good, and in this one case, too good can be too bad.

I'm glad you're not a real ref, 'cause I'd hate to work a game with you.

I've ejected for less, and would gladly do it again.

A wise man once said exactly the same thing.

For instance actually officiate the game! :p

:confused: Was this run through one of those foreign language translators?

Hell, I'd hate to work a game with you if you're tossing players for minor stuff. What the heck you gonna do when a real problem comes along? Show some balls and try a little game management before you pull the trigger. I mean think about something more then yourself on the court.

Did you ever consider, grandpa or Aunt Mary drives a 100miles to see Billy play for the first time, and he/she gets ejected in the first quarter because him and another player was going after a loose ball, all out, which is the way the coaches want you play, and trigger happy it's all about me referee ejects Billy and opponent because he didn't like the way they looked at each other when they got up off the ground, after diving for the ball. No blood, no punches thrown, just good ole fashion hustle. I guess if you never played the game at that level you wouldn't understand.

Hell no, I wouldn't want to work with you either........

If you eject for what you call the "minor stuff", then you won't have to deal with the "major stuff."

I have to admit, though, it doesn't always work -- take this forum, for example. One individual's posts have been edited, deleted, and the individual has been suspended. Yet the individual still posts here.

Old School:

If little Billy does something that warrants ejection, then I guess that Grandpa or Aunt Mary are out of luck. And I did have a situation similar to your hypothetical situation: Girls' H.S. varsity soccer game. I am the Head Referee in a Dual System officiating crew. H1 is wearing a cast, that is padded, but still illegal. H1's sister, who was attending college away from home, had returned home to see her sister play. Today's game would be the only time that the older sister would get a chance to see her younger sister play that year. I did not let play H1 play because of the cast, even though her coach said that other officials had let her play with the cast including my partner who was the Head Referee in Home team's last game three days before.

Officials are paid big bucks to make the tough decisions. If you can't stand the heat, then stay out of the kitchen.

As others have said, I am glad I do not have to officiate with you.

MTD, Sr.

Likewise....

Nope, never occurs to me. This isn't even close to the situation described. No one here would eject for this. The OP is two kids running full bore at each other, not at the ball.
Reading is about more than making words out of the pretty little letters on your screen. It also involves making full sentences out of the words.

I never seen that happen on a basketball court, maybe that's why I misinterpret. I thought he mentioned something about a lose ball.

*Tweet* - forfeit, game over.

Not really.

If it's that big of a deal, I'll give them a quarter to call for the cab ride home.

Likewise?? Is that all you have got?

ROFLMAO

MTD, Sr.

Some of us are surprised the village idiot could stop wanking himself long enough to dig that one up.

Read it again. It started with a loose ball. After that, the players ran after each other and had to be stopped by other players to prevent an "actual" fight.

And I don't care if the Secretary General of the UN, The Pope, President Bush, and President Clinton were all there to watch the kid play.

Upon further review, I would say ejections where warrented. That type of hostility is hard to recover from. I guess I would have to be there to determine what I would have done. Snaqs, also got thrown from partners reaction who was the other ref there.

Old School:

Are you telling me and everybody else that you would not make a warranted ejection of little Billy because his Grandpa and Aunt Mary traveled 100 miles to see him play for the very first time?

MTD, Sr.

Mark,
It looks to me like he vastly misread the OP and thought they were ejected for running fiercely at a loose ball.

Had a similiar situation where after a mad scrammble for the ball, 2 players down on court. Ball slips away and is now heading in other direction, fast break. I'm old lead going new trail. Because of physical activity on the scrammble, I stay with 2 players getting up off the floor in backcourt. Player A5 shoves B3 back down to the floor and gets up and runs down the court. I suppose I could have ejected BillyBob for the shove, and I thought about it and reason that the shove was more than a common foul, but less than a flagrant. So I called a technical foul. Turned out Billy Dad was the scorekeeper and did not like the physical play of the incident, and he did not see ole BillyBob shove other player. It was early Sunday morning, 1st game out the gate, 9:00am. Rival schools and either these parents didn't like having to get up early Sunday morning or they all had bad Saturday nights. I will never forget this game as everybody in the gym was pissed off except for me. I was taking it easy, easy like Sunday morning.....but I still gave ole BillyBob a technical and I remeber telling all the parents, you all need to be in church.

Have a nice day....

MTD,
May I inquire what exactly was "still illegal" about the cast since it is permissible for players to wear hard casts in an NFHS game if it is properly padded and there is a medical release present. (4-2-1c and play ruling 4.2.1 Situation C) What specifically about the situation made you withhold referee approval?


4.2.1 Situation C: A player wears a hard cast on an arm or a hard splint on a finger that has been covered with a foam-rubber padding and then wrapped securely with a soft elastic athletic bandage. RULING: Legal. Players may participate if wearing a hard cast or hard splint if properly padded and with medical permission and referee approval.

Absolutely great, you moron. The only thing that you absolutely couldn't call on this play was a freaking technical foul. Live-ball <b>contact</b> fouls have to be a <b>PERSONAL</b> foul of some kind. The <b>RULES</b> say that you could call either a common personal foul, an intentional <b>personal</b> foul or a flagrant <b>personal</b> foul. Instead, Mr. WannabeAnOfficialSomeday calls the only thing that the rules won't allow to be called---a <b>technical</b> foul of some kind.

And this basic little fact has already been pointed out to you several times since you first infested this forum.

You could screw up a one-car funeral.

Lah me.....it just never stops.:rolleyes:

I respectfully disagree, you can call a live ball technical foul. Excuse me but isn't that what a flagrant foul is, a live ball TF? Whatever, the fact of the matter is I did it, now get over it. I know I sure have and I didn't get written up for it either. haha!!!

That's because there is no one watching and making write-ups of the officials in rec ball. You can just screw up whatever you wish.

And while a technical foul can be charged during a live ball, one cannot be charged for CONTACT during a live ball. That is the point that JR is making to you. If there had NOT been any CONTACT on the play, then you could have assessed a T, but with CONTACT a technical foul is not permissible by rule in that situation.

Here's the right way to do it. This is what JR is telling you. Get it now?

Lah me....

You don't have a clue what a flagrant foul is either, do you? :rolleyes: There are flagrant <b>personal</b> fouls and there are flagrant <b>technical</b> fouls. Real officials know that. Real officials also know the difference. Real officials know when to call them also. RecLeague warriors don't know the rules. And they don't care either because...well....all they work are rec leagues. Who writes up rec league officials?

Am I surprised that you called a technical foul for live-ball contact, JMO? Not in the least! Am I surprised that you don't know what a flagrant foul is either? Not in the least! I would have been very surprised though if you had got it right.

NevadaRef:

The year that this game was played was two years before the rule was changed to what it is now. At the time of the game in question the Rule and Casebook Play prohibited the wearing of casts period.

MTD, Sr.

Old School:

Illegal contact WHILE THE BALL IS LIVE is a PERSONAL foul, NOT a TECHNICAL foul. Read Rule 4 in both the NFHS and NCAA rules books.

MTD, Sr.

I'm not surprised either. I heard that once when a player faked a free throw, he called a balk. :eek:

As AD at our MS we had a cheerleader become ineligible for one week for grades. Just so happened her grandparents were coming in from Arizona and this was the only game they could see.

Besides the fact I didn't believe the story and was sorry if it was actually true, we couldn't let her cheer.

Turned out this was the best thing that happened to her as she got the message and kept her grades up the rest of the year. I wish all student-athletes would get the hint.

As an aside...(some) cheer moms are a different breed.

Real officials don't spend all their time looking for mistakes of other officials. Real officials don't try to make themselves look better at the expense of others. Real officials don't berate other officials in the profession just because they got a call wrong. As far as the call I made. I got news for you. It was my call, I made it, right or wrong. I upgraded the call to technical. Might not have been the correct thing to do, but guess what, it's a done deal now and I wouldn't hesitate to upgrade another call to technical if I felt warrented. Oh, and for the record, the technical foul was for unsportsmanlike conduct, I upgraded that one too.

Silly Master Monkey

Sometimes you have to ignore those who slam others.....it was your game, your judgement and if you are fine with the call you made, so be it. If you look at Rule 4-18-2, it clearly states that an attempt to instigate a fight by committing an unsporting act towards an opponent that causes an opponent to retaliate by fighting. So if you felt that was the case, then good call. Officiating is all subjective!

Disagree. I guess you could call it rec-league but it was 2 HS teams, intramuals. If I was to make a mistake, there are plenty of people there at the event, scorekeepers, coaches, etc. that would let you know you made a mistake.

I hate to bust you and JR bubble but officially, the call was for unsportsmanlike conduct. I upgraded it, so now after removing the egg on your face. You got anything else you want to say I screwed up.

Silly monkey....

Sigh.....

How can it be a good call when there was <freaking</b> contact involved? And if you want to involve "fighting", then you'd better be throwing <b>two</b> players out also.

It's not a matter of slamming somebody. It's trying to get the rules <b>right</b> for all those that read this site.

Methinks you need to learn the basics also. Posts like yours don't help when it comes to the teaching side of this forum.

Why are you so critical about everything? Bash, bash, bash......you are a respected official, but you the way you come across makes people cringe when you respond. PM me if you would like to learn some people skills.

Yup, you completely screwed up. The rules won't allow you to call an unsportsmanlike conduct technical foul for illegal contact during a live ball.

You didn't "upgrade" squat. You made a call that the rules say can't be made. That's because you don't <b>know</b> the rules.

The rules references for the non-silly monkeys that actually own rule books are NFHS rule 4-19-1 and 4-19-5b&c.

I'm critical of people that <b>deliberately</b> post something that is completely false, rules-wise. Part of the idea behind this site is the advancement of officiating knowledge. Anyone posting nonsense that is obviously wrong per the rules does absolutely nothing to help officiating knowledge.

If you want to say that the call that was made by Old School was a good call, even though that call was completely wrong by rule, hey, be my guest. Don't let the fact that some other rules-knowledgeable guys like Nevada and MTD Sr. disagree completely with you also. Don't get bent out of shape though when it gets pointed out that you are as wrong as Old School was.

Some answers aren't "opinions". They are either right or wrong according to the written rules. This particular one is a no-brainer. You can't call a technical foul for the live-ball contact as described, no matter what you and Old school think. And insisting that you can do so without any rules backing at all is ludicrous.

Officiating isn't objective when you call something that the rules won't allow to be called. You can't make up your own rules, believe it or not.

Jmo......like it or not.

Thanks, I am glad there is at least one perect person on this earth, do you walk on water as well?

If you want to post anything that refutes what I've said so far about the particular rules being discussed, please do so.

You and Old School are completely wrong in regards to those rules. If you feel like disagreeing further with that , feel free to cite something that will back up what you're asserting.

It's not a matter of being perfect. It is a matter of getting the call <b>right</b>. That's the important part.

All I am saying is that you need to have a little more tact when you post. This is a learning board for everyone. I do value your input.....

You're probably right. I can do better in some responses.

Bad Woddy. Bad, bad Woddy.(disregard...irrelevant inside joke)

I apologize for my initial response to you. It certainly could have been worded better.

The general message remains the same though. This is a learning board for everyone, but especially newer officials, players, coaches and casual readers. It is incredibly frustrating sometimes to see basic rules completely butchered by the Old Schools of the world, and then have them endlessly insist that they are right without giving any rules backing. It just makes everybody's job harder down the line when newbies and non-officials don't know what to believe.

Old School:

1) Illegal contact while the ball is live is a personal foul. It cannot ever be a technical foul.

2) Personal fouls are of the following types: (a) common foul (including player control fouls and team control fouls (see the NCAA exception for throw-ins); (b) fouls committed against a player in the act of shooting; (c) intentional fouls; and (d) flagrant fouls.

3) Technical fouls are of the following types: (a) non-contact fouls while the ball is live; (b) non-contact fouls while the ball is dead; (c) contact fouls while the ball is dead; (d) intentional fouls; and (e) flagrant fouls.

What does this all mean? It means that any contact foul while the ball is live is a personal foul; and the official then must determine whether it is a common foul, a foul committed against a player in the act of shooting, an intentional foul, or a flagrant foul.

If you had taken the time to read and learn the definition of fouls, found in Rule 4 of both the NFHS and NCAA rules books, I would not have had to waste my time making this post.

MTD, Sr.

I agree...friends???? PLEASE!!!!

MTD - I'm sure this is a typo. You're not suggesting the ball can be a personal foul, are you? ;)

Lol...it never was personal.
http://www.animatedgif.net/miscellaneous/ceblobs_e0.gif

I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Don't tell anyone, though. I've made wrong calls before, too. I once convinced my partner that anyone could shoot free throws for an injured player, not just his replacement.

Here's the kicker. That was the wrong call, and one made by a 19 year-old rookie who thought he knew better than his partner.

Here's the bonus. I can admit it was a bad call, even though no one ever mentioned it to me again. No one ever wrote me up for it.

I'm going to let you in on a secret. While researching the code on the APTI, I came across a case play where I totally kicked one. It was a boys varsity game and I was the R and I really wanted to jump toss the ball, good jumpers in the game. Well, in the pregame, one of the good jumpers dunked the ball. Stupid, I was looking the other way but my partner caught it. I tried to get my partner to let it go, so that I could still do the toss, he said no. Well, what I did was a player on the opposition team touch the rim on the way down as the teams was coming off the court for the introductions. Wah-la! I got a T on you for grabbing the rim, therefore making it a double T and we start the game with a jump. Classic, I got my jump ball back! Right! Woops, we did it wrong but I didn't realize until several years later. Most officials might not have something like that happen in a career of officiating. Therefore, you would not know the unique difference in the rule.

But you know what. I'm not going to sit here and brawl beat another official on this forum because he did it wrong. I would never ever, as long as I officiate do that to another official, even if I didn't like him. That is the difference between me and you. I have no malice in my heart to want to beat others down because they are not at my level.

Quote: posted by Nevadaref

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">And while a technical foul can be charged during a live ball, one cannot be charged for CONTACT during a live ball. That is the point that JR is making to you. If there had NOT been any CONTACT on the play, then you could have assessed a T, but with CONTACT a technical foul is not permissible by rule in that situation. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Sure, let's examine these two simple definitions: ;)

4-19-5 . . . A technical foul is:
a. A foul by a nonplayer.
b. A noncontact foul by a player.
c. An intentional or flagrant contact foul while the ball is dead, except a foul by an airborne shooter.
d. A direct technical, charged to the head coach because of his/her actions or for permitting a player to participate after having been disqualified. (10-5)
e. An indirect technical, charged to the head coach as a result of a bench technical foul being assessed to team bench personnel, or a player technical foul being assessed to a team member for dunking or grasping the ring during pregame warm-up or at intermission. (10-3-4, 10-4-1 through 5)


4-19-14 . . . An unsporting foul is a noncontact technical foul which consists of unfair, unethical, dishonorable conduct or any behavior not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.



So even with your belated unsportsmanlike explanation, you are still incorrect. Have to love the cosmic justice here! :D

Now take your eggs and go make an omelet, if you can manage that task without a severe screw-up.

PS We all know who the silly monkey is on this one. :p

Anybody else doing this at Old <strike>School</strike> Fool now?

http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...es/roflmao.gif

That just might be the funniest thing ever posted on this forum.

And he was actually serious too, folks.......

Post of the week.:D

I don't know 'bout that...this one from the "what's your response" thread gets my vote.

"I mean, I don't have to hold back with my officiating technique. "

Geeze, I missed that one somehow. Hilarious. I'm trying to find out what <b>"alma-no on alma-no"</b> is now.That one isn't in the English/OldSchool dictionary either.

Maybe he's against a certain college in Michigan?:

http://www.alma.edu/

Perhaps he had a bad experience in Wisconsin:

http://www.almawisconsin.com/

Or, perhaps he's against adoptees in general:

http://www.almasociety.org/

I'm sorry JMO, but whether you adjudicated the situation correct or not, you are a very scary official.

WOW! I had to wipe my brawl before I understood this one! :eek:

A foster no?

Mark:

I corrected the typo in my original post. BUT, from personal experience contact with a ball can be very satisfying. :eek:

MTD, Sr.

JR:

Maybe Old Fool, opps, I mean Old School, meant: "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da" by the Beatles.

MTD, Sr.

Obviously you do not know the "unique difference" between touching the ring/basket and grasping the ring/basket? Therefore, I'll just tell you that first is legal, while the second is not.

So, you actually screwed up TWICE on this play. Not only did you fail to administer the technical foul that you called properly, something which you now say that you are aware, but you were in fact also WRONG to assess it in the first place, and clearly you aren't aware of this error.

Once again...http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...es/roflmao.gif

Actually, the laughs on you because what did we do? We went double technical, jump ball. So you can laugh all you want. What I wanted to happen, happen! http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...es/roflmao.gif

Scary thought isn't it? Another thing that I'm sure nobody thought of but me. The player I gave the T to was a deep bench player. The coach had his starting players in a huddle while the rest of the pack was still coming off the floor. As they say in the Guiness beer commericals, brillant, brillant! Why don't all you referee haters go have a Guiness brew on me. Take a break off all the hating, and don't worry, I'm human, I will make another mistake on the court and I might even share it with you so you can point out the mistake to everyone and feel complete. Brillant! Brillant!!!!

Yup, you made it happen, for sure. I hate to break it you though, but the rules won't allow you to call a double technical foul in that situation either. The only scary thought is that one day somebody might make a biiiiiig mistake and put you on a real game. Of course, the good thing is that nobody would probably notice that you screwed up again anyway in the rec leagues that you do.

Double technical fouls, by definition, can only happen when two opponents commit technical fouls <b>against each other</b> at approximately the <b>same</b> time.

And if you've ever heard of the term "simultaneous technical fouls", fuggedaboutit. That ain't gonna fly either. What you did isn't allowable by rule.

Silly monkey. You keep trying but it's tough to do something by the rules when you don't own any rule books. No wonder everybody is always http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...es/roflmao.gif at you.

Old (Fool) School:

I will have a Guiness on you if you will start drinking that Kool-aid you want everybody to drink.

MTD, Sr.

What's a "brillant"? Is that an ant wearing a Brillo pad? Brilliant you ain't. ;)

Oh yeah - I don't know what a "commerical" is either. Is that a commercial they show only in California? :confused:

No, we're still laughing at you. :p

That's simply classic! :D

Either:
1. Your area is desparate for varsity officials.
or
2. You're lying. I can't imagine any varsity official I know who carries such a juvinile attitude. Rainman is an official, "I want to have a jump ball. Definitely, I want to have a jump ball. Sometimes, Dad lets me throw the toss in the driveway."

Yea, that's happen quite a bit. To the tune of about 120 last season along. Here's the ironic thing, all of the games ended normally, no controverscy, just normal! Amazing isn't it. Amazing that a guy can get over a hundred varsity hs and college games and not own a rulebook. You know what, it's time for me to start taking some credit of my own. I'm good, no, I'm damn good because i have never cheated on the HS test, and I pass it every year without a rulebook. Damn I good, thanks for pointing that out.

Enough arguing with you guys today. Got real work to do....I'm out

Old School:

What city and state do you officiate H.S. basketball? And where do you officiate college basketball?

Please tell us? We all want to know so that we can verify your experience.

MTD, Sr.

That just might be the funniest thing ever posted on this forum.

Lah me...120 varsity high school and college games.:D

Psssst: Intramurals don't count, no matter what your Mom tells you.

Yea, you're right, I'm cutting back this year.

Your next high school varsity game will be your first one.

And your first high school varsity game will be your last one.

High school/college ain't rec league, Toto.

You don't think that anybody really believed you, did you?

Silly monkey......:rolleyes:

Not a chance, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

Ya think? I was laughing harder when I got to this part:

Although now that I think about it, I have to admit, he didn't say it was the NFHS test. And he didn't define "pass". Nor "cheat"....

I would bet the "HS" test he passes is the one for underwater basket weaving. :D

Mark

I have a couple of suggestions on the states...

State of Confusion, which is just south of the State of Intoxication, which by the way does not border the State of Matrimony, but driving thru that state may drive you to Intoxication. Dont forget there is the State of Felicity which is near the State of Bliss (no relation to FT Bliss in Texas). There is the State of Stupor, , or State of Utter Ridiculousness, which most likey is near the State of Undress, that leads to the State of Humor.

The State of Nirvana maybe close by, but we could not be that lucky because the state of Anger is on that freeway, just prior to the State of Total Lack of Logic (or is that common sense?---- sorry lost my geography book, and my GPS is not programmed)

Just to State the Obvious..

Could be coach Harrick's "how many halves in a basketball game" multiple-choice final.

Under FEEBLE rules, there's 3.86 (metric). http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...mages/woot.gif