Do we need this mechanic?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

"Point to floor" -- always, or only when it's close to the three-point line? If it's the latter, then I don't think it's a "special" mechanic.

Only when it's close.

"No Long switches" -- If there is a change of posession, then you switch? IF so, that's unusual. MOst would have no long switches on any such occurrence, or switch on every foul.

So A just scored, B is bringing the ball up-court and B1 commits a PC foul right around A's FT line. You don't switch in a two-person crew?

"Team members congregating" and "Coaching Box" are rules, not mechanics.

I thought NFHS recommended that each state come up with procedures for congregating before the game. Also, the CT state procedure specifies what should be done when a coaching box isn't present.

Don't like it? Don't move to our state.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

When the NCAA/CAA added this signal a number of years ago, I thought it was the dumbest, stupidest, most idiotic signal that was ever adopted. I have never used it in a college game or an AAU girls' game because if I am not counting, it means that there is no closing guarded situation. AND, I do not plan to ever use it in a H.S. game or any game using NFHS rules.

MTD, Sr.

[lrpalmer3]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

When the NCAA/CAA added this signal a number of years ago, I thought it was the dumbest, stupidest, most idiotic signal that was ever adopted. I have never used it in a college game or an AAU girls' game because if I am not counting, it means that there is no closing guarded situation. AND, I do not plan to ever use it in a H.S. game or any game using NFHS rules.

MTD, Sr.

Interesting. What about trying to maintain consistency between officials' signals on the court? Do you believe that all officials should have the flexibility to put aside or add signals according to their opinion?

[lrpalmer3]

To me, this mechanic is more useful to the players on the court. Both the defender and ball handler can see whether or not the count is on without explicitly looking at the official.

If the players are on your right and you are counting with your left hand, it's difficult for them to see if you simply drop you left hand to your side indicating that the count is off.

[mick]

Originally Posted by lrpalmer3

To me, this mechanic is more useful to the players on the court. Both the defender and ball handler can see whether or not the count is on without explicitly looking at the official.

Oh, my !

To me, if the ball handler is actually being closely-guarded, that player will be a bit busy to worry about whether the ref is counting or not, ... no matter which hand the ref is using.
As the defender, I don't care what the ref is doing. The other guy has *my ball* and I want it back.

[lrpalmer3]

Originally Posted by mick

Oh, my !

To me, if the ball handler is actually being closely-guarded, that player will be a bit busy to worry about whether the ref is counting or not, ... no matter which hand the ref is using.
As the defender, I don't care what the ref is doing. The other guy has *my ball* and I want it back.

Good ball players are well aware of the count. As a ref, you've never had a player look your direction to see if you had a count?

[mick]

Originally Posted by lrpalmer3

Good ball players are well aware of the count. As a ref, you've never had a player look your direction to see if you had a count?

Correct.
Never.
Who's he guarding if he's lookin' at me?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mick

Oh, my !

To me, if the ball handler is actually being closely-guarded, that player will be a bit busy to worry about whether the ref is counting or not, ... no matter which hand the ref is using.
As the defender, I don't care what the ref is doing. The other guy has *my ball* and I want it back.

I see your point, but it is usually the coach behind the official that is yelling for this. Several times this summer alone the coach is yelling to the ball handler about whether I have a count or not which he is telling his player to move or pass the ball.

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

When the NCAA/CAA added this signal a number of years ago, I thought it was the dumbest, stupidest, most idiotic signal that was ever adopted. I have never used it in a college game or an AAU girls' game because if I am not counting, it means that there is no closing guarded situation. AND, I do not plan to ever use it in a H.S. game or any game using NFHS rules.

Mark, if you do not like the mechanic, do not use the mechanic. I do not think anyone is going to be upset with you. The mechanic is just another way to communicate a situation. Just not counting does not always communicate why you are not counting.

We really are making this harder than it needs to be.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

We really are making this harder than it needs to be.

Agree. It can't hurt. It might help. It ain't no biggie.

[mick]

Originally Posted by lrpalmer3

Interesting. What about trying to maintain consistency between officials' signals on the court? Do you believe that all officials should have the flexibility to put aside or add signals according to their opinion?

This happens all the time !
Practical signals get added because officials are using them.
Silly mechanics get dropped because officials refuse to use them.

[lrpalmer3]

Originally Posted by mick

This happens all the time !
Practical signals get added because officials are using them.
Silly mechanics get dropped because officials refuse to use them.

This is true.

[Rita C]

To be honest, I haven't really had many coaches say anything about closely guarded. I haven't felt the need for the mechanic. Of course, as of yet, I've done few varsity games. That may be the difference.

Soooo, I guess I'll give it a try. One more signal to worry about using.

Rita

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Rita C

To be honest, I haven't really had many coaches say anything about closely guarded.

You are lucky

I haven't felt the need for the mechanic. Of course, as of yet, I've done few varsity games. That may be the difference. Soooo, I guess I'll give it a try. One more signal to worry about using. Rita

I defiantly would not worry about using this mechanic or go out my way to use it. Just know that it's there to help communicate what you are judging, if you need it. Sort of like the bird dog signal. You don't have to bird dog but at times, it helps to communicate your judgement. Communication (as the wise man once said) is the key to successful officiating.

Have a nice day

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rita C

To be honest, I haven't really had many coaches say anything about closely guarded. I haven't felt the need for the mechanic. Of course, as of yet, I've done few varsity games. That may be the difference.

Soooo, I guess I'll give it a try. One more signal to worry about using.

Rita

Coaches at the varsity level do tend to complain more about the closely guarded issue. That is because they are more knowledgeable about the game. JV and lower level coaches are more concerned about 3 seconds and why his or her player was not awarded a foul call for dribbling through all 5 people. Do not worry about it.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

I thought NFHS recommended that each state come up with procedures for congregating before the game. Also, the CT state procedure specifies what should be done when a coaching box isn't present.

Don't like it? Don't move to our state.

The state that Bob and I belong to have their own procedures as to how to deal with players near the center area during pre-game introductions and the coaching box enforcement. The home team is allowed the center court area during pre-game introductions and if a team has a special celebration like a school called the Quincy High School Blue Devils, a school can get a waiver from the IHSA to allow a waiver from the normal rule.

Also the coaching box was a major issue a couple of years ago. The IHSA wanted us to enforce rule very strictly and to give Ts to help enforce the strict rule. Well they have now back off a little but still have a heavy emphasis to coaching staying completely in the box.

BTW, here is an example of a pre-game celebration. I was actually working this game but this school got a waiver to use this introduction from the IHSA. According to NF rules this would be outlawed.

Quincy High School Pre-Game introduction

Peace