The Great Debate: ‘No-Call’ It?

[MOFFICIAL]

I would also no-call this situation. If I don't see the play then I don't guess.
I'll take the heat for not watching my primary if it in fact occured there and trust my partners are doing the same.

[112448]

Like Eli and Jim i would have to have a call in this situation. Every instructor at every camp I have attended (10 in 4 states from VA to TX) has told me that you must have a whistle in that situation, even like Eli said, if "you have to guess."

I also happen to work in an athletic department at a small university and have the good fortune of having an office across the hall from the Men's Basketball coach. Over the course of numerous conversations he has made it abundently clear that to have a "no call" in that situation is unacceptable to him as a coach. He has said,

"even if the official is wrong, i want to have a whistle in that situation. a no call in that situation could lead to retaliatory actions later." -- if not an exact quote, it's pretty close

Just wanted to throw in my two-cents and add the persceptive from one coach.

jake

[Brian Watson]

If I didn't see it, how can I make a call. If I was zoned out and missed it, then I have to swallow my whistle and take my medicine from the howler monkey's.

Having said that, I make it a point in every pregame to cover collisions. If someone hits the floor, someone on my crew better damn well know how he/she got there. This is not a time for us to drop the ball, this is how fights start.


Most coaches will tell you they don't care if the call goes against them, they just want a call... until it goes against them. If I can't defend it, I am not going to call it.

[williebfree]

Originally posted by Brian Watson
Most coaches just want a call... until it goes against them. If I can't defend it, I am not going to call it.

I was there last Friday night, A1 and B1 collide while hustling to get a loose ball. The good news, I WAS IN POSITION to make the correct call.

Team B (backcourt) makes a sloppy, lazy pass and A1 hustles into the area as he makes an effort to steal. From my angle as the trail, I saw A1 create the contact after B1 gained control of the ball.

Tweet! (Closed Fist, White, 32, 'NFHS signal only' Pushing No verbalization of the foul, as per the guidance of the wiley veterans here )

Team A (Home team) Coach Barked out, "How can you call that?"

"Coach, He (opponent) had the ball and your guy ran into him."

"I do not agree. It is a loose ball and the other guy created the contact."

"Coach, we had different angles. I called what I saw."

Coach turns to his player (Who was just whistled for the foul), "Good hustle Johnny. Maybe we'll get the call next time."

[Kristy Roberson]

This is a tough one for me because if I didn't see the play and someone went down--it's a no call for me-- however, I always beat myself up for not seeing the contact or for no being in the right position to see the contact.

[Talkinhoopsy'all]

I would have to agree with the other scholars who say no call... I think many of us look go back in our officiating carrers and shudder at a "guess call" we made that we would love to have back.

If you did not see a play I would think that taking your lump from a coach and moving on is less severe than guessing and having them on you the whole game.

But I think the biggest reason against guessing is the use of video, and ESPN, officials mistakes are often sent around the world long before the supervisor hears about it, and if it is an obvious guess you could be done depending on the price of the guess.

[BBarnaky]

As this issue goes, I would have a whistle. There are few occassions for no-calls in games on block/charges. One that comes to mind, is where defensive player starts to fall back or where offensive player brushes by defensive player and in both of these situations there is little or no contact at all on the play, these are no-calls. I think all collisions deserve a whistle. Even if you get it wrong. I hope you don't. Crashes in my mind are not tough to call if your in positions and refereeing the defense. Remember the tough 50/50 crashes and talk about them with your crew, because if there is another 50/50 crash at the other end we want to "balance the floor."

I would hate to have to guess on a call due to my lack of hustle, being out of position, not refereeing the defense, or not having a clear lane of vision on the play; but I would for sure have a whistle and come up with something if I put myself in that situation....for sure.

When players go to the floor and we don't have a whistle it casts a doubt on our credibility and judgment, we must have a whistle!!!!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BBarnaky
[BRemember the tough 50/50 crashes and talk about them with your crew, because if there is another 50/50 crash at the other end we want to "balance the floor."

[/B]

What exactly do you mean by "balance the floor"?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by BBarnaky
When players go to the floor and we don't have a whistle it casts a doubt on our credibility and judgment, we must have a whistle!!!!

No, we don't have to have a whistle! As you said yourself, there can be quite a bit of contact in a basketball game which looks bad but is not a foul. If no official saw the whole play, there would be no way to tell if the contact was legal/illegal and who initated it.

Do you base your other calls on expectations from the crowd? If no one sees where the shooter's foot is, and the entire arena signals "three," do you award three points? Do you call travelling because A1's drive to the basket "looks funny?" I sure as hell hope not!

[Bart Tyson]

Everything being equal. I might have a no call. I also would not rule out the game situation. i.e. has it been a rough game and you want to clean it up, or one team is winning by 20 mid way in 2nd half, or one of the players is a problem player, or 1st half vs 2nd half.

[crew]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee


[/B]

What exactly do you mean by "balance the floor"? [/B][/QUOTE]
i think what bbarnaky means is if you have a tough 50/50 play on one end of the court where you call a charge, then if you have a tough 50/50 play on the other end a charge should be called(not an obvious block). it keeps consistency in the game. on a further note, if an official obviously misses a call "balancing the floor" should not be considered when the same play occurs on the other end(just chalk it up as a miss).

[BktBallRef]

What is a 50/50 call?

It's either a block or a PC, not 50% one and 50% the other.

Referee the defense and you won't have to make a call at one end based on what you called at the other end.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
What exactly do you mean by "balance the floor"?

Originally posted by crew

i think what bbarnaky means is if you have a tough 50/50 play on one end of the court where you call a charge, then if you have a tough 50/50 play on the other end a charge should be called(not an obvious block). it keeps consistency in the game. on a further note, if an official obviously misses a call "balancing the floor" should not be considered when the same play occurs on the other end(just chalk it up as a miss).

crew - I cannot agree with the philosophy that calling a block/charge one way on one end of the court should influence how you call one on the other side of the court - or even how you would make the call if it happened next on the same side of the court.

No two plays are 100.0000000000000...% identical. You call each play according to how you see it - period. If it looked similar to a play on the other end but you made the call the other way because that was the correct call for that play, then you are doing your job properly.

"Consistency", as you call it, is not having one call influence the next. It's applying the same principles of decision - making evenly throughout the game from start to finish.

Remember - your job (believe it or not) is to make sure the best team wins. I've explained this philosophy before.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

Remember - your job (believe it or not) is to make sure the best team wins. I've explained this philosophy before.

Mark -- Yes, you have but it's been awhile. I think itmight benefit everyone ify ou would explain it again -- Maybe give it a new thread!?

[crew]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
[QUOTE

[


crew - I cannot agree with the philosophy that calling a block/charge one way on one end of the court should influence how you call one on the other side of the court - or even how you would make the call if it happened next on the same side of the court.

No two plays are 100.0000000000000...% identical. You call each play according to how you see it - period. If it looked similar to a play on the other end but you made the call the other way because that was the correct call for that play, then you are doing your job properly.[/QUOTE]
i agree that no 2 plays are 100% identical. what i am saying is that if a block/charge on one end is very close/tough(meaning it is difficult to decide if the D was legal or illegal) and on the other end another block/charge play occurs that is tough the same call should be made. i am not saying that if the play was tough at one end and obvious at the other to make the same call.

"Consistency", as you call it, is not having one call influence the next. It's applying the same principles of decision - making evenly throughout the game from start to finish.

not all plays are easy to call and have 100% confidence that you made the correct call. therefor play memorization is a tool that can help decide the call. coaches, supervisors, fans, and officials want to have consistency on the court to keep the playing field level.

Remember - your job (believe it or not) is to make sure the best team wins. I've explained this philosophy before.

my job is not to make sure the best team win, my job is to make the playing court fair/even because the best team does not always win. if the best team always won why do we need tournaments or even a season, we would just award the championship trophy to duke/L.A. right now. read this last sentence with a grain of salt.(it is kinda sarcastic)