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Old Wed May 30, 2007, 11:15pm
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I know this is risky, but...

The combination of the recent GT/BI thread and my upcoming camp with boys' games led me to spend the last couple days studying the rule and case books. Now I'm gonna give a closed book overview as a sort of test for myself. If this gets too weird, I'll just close the whole thread, but I"m hoping something good might come out of this.

Goaltending -- First, in order for there to be a violation, the ball has to have some chance of going into the basket. Furthermore, the ball has to be on it's downward flight when it is contacted. It is goaltending to block the ball against the backboard regardless of where the ball is in its flight, unless it is past the possibility of entering the basket GT could be either offensive or defensive, but is most likely to be defensive. (Ignoring the free throw stuff).

Basket Interference -- The ball must be on the rim, in the basket or in the cylinder above the rim. If the call is for touching the basket, the ball must be on the rim or in the net. If for touching the ball, it must be in the net, on the rim, or in the cylinder. BI can be either offensive or defensive.

There's something about pulling the rim down and it contacts the ball, but I don't have the hang of that yet.

Slapping the backboard is never BI or GT, even if the rim vibrates.

The ball becomes dead when the violation is committed. If the violation is committed by the defense, points are awarded, either 2 or 3 depending on where the shot was taken from. If offensive, the ball is given to the other team at the point nearest to where the violation was committed.

Okay, I"m done. Help me fill in the gaps.

Last edited by rainmaker; Thu May 31, 2007 at 08:33am.
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 31, 2007, 12:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
It is goaltending to block the ball against the backboard regardless of where the ball is in its flight, unless it is past the possibility of entering the basket

Where does this part come from?
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 31, 2007, 12:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
It is goaltending to block the ball against the backboard regardless of where the ball is in its flight, ...
You let Old School confuse you. That is only the case in the NBA. Pinning the ball against the glass is legal in both NFHS and NCAA, so is blocking the ball AFTER it contacts the board if the ball is still on the way up or has no chance of going in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
There's something about pulling the rim down and it contacts the ball, but I don't have the hang of that yet.
Yep, that's rule 4-6-4. It is pretty clear, so just reading it will do it for you.
Furthermore, it is BI if a player reaches through the basket from below and contacts a ball that is still outside the cylinder. (4-6-3) You didn't mention that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
Slapping the backboard is never BI or GT, even if the rim vibrates.
Completely correct statement.

You should also know the statement that for GT the ball must be OUTSIDE the imaginery cylinder. If the ball is inside the cylinder the BI rule takes over.

FT stuff is pretty simple. Normal BI/GT rules apply PLUS the following two additional items:
a. It is also a technical foul to GT a FT attempt.
b. It is GT if the FT attempt is blocked on either the way UP or the way down.
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 31, 2007, 07:42am
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Nobody has mentioned this, maybe because it's too obvious. But in order to have GT, there must be a try for goal. For BI, it doesn't matter how the ball gets on the rim or in the cylinder. Could be a pass or a deflection. But for GT, it must be a try.

Goaltending:

1. Must be a try.
2. Must be on the way down.
3. Must be completley outside the cylinder.
4. Must be completely above the rim.
5. Must have a chance to go in.

Basket Interference:

1. Can't touch the ball if it's in the cylinder.
2. Can't touch the basket or ball if it's on or in the basket.
3. Can't touch the ball (even outside the cylinder) after reaching through the basket.
4. If rim is moved, it can't contact the ball before returning to its original position.
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 31, 2007, 07:46am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
Goaltending -- First, in order for there to be a violation, the ball has to have some chance of going into the basket. Furthermore, the ball has to be on it's downward flight when it is contacted.
So far, so good.

Quote:
It is goaltending to block the ball against the backboard regardless of where the ball is in its flight, unless it is past the possibility of entering the basket
Say it with me - "the backboard has nothing to do with GT." Don't overcomplicate GT - stick to the basics of downward flight, chance of going in and outside the cylinder.

Quote:
GT could be either offensive or defensive, but is most likely to be defensive. (Ignoring the free throw stuff).
Probably not the best mindset to get yourself into - while rare, you don't want to miss an offensive GT because you were focusing just on the defense.

Quote:
Basket Interference -- The ball must be on the rim, in the basket or in the cylinder above the rim. If the call is for touching the basket, the ball must be on the rim or in the net. If for touching the ball, it must be in the net, on the rim, or in the cylinder. BI can be either offensive or defensive.
You can also have BI for reaching through the basket (from below) and contacting the ball when the ball is outside of the cylinder.

Quote:
There's something about pulling the rim down and it contacts the ball, but I don't have the hang of that yet.
If the ring has been pulled down, and contacts the ball before it returns back to its original position, you have BI.

Quote:
Slapping the backboard is never BI or GT, even if the rim vibrates.

The ball becomes dead when the violation is committed. If the violation is committed by the defense, points are awarded, either 2 or 3 depending on where the shot was taken from. If offensive, the ball is given to the other team at the point nearest to where the violation was committed.

Okay, I"m done. Help me fill in the gaps.
All good stuff at the end. I would just add that on a throw-in, you can have BI, but you can't have GT. Want to take a crack as to why that is?
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 31, 2007, 07:58am
Lighten up, Francis.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Dexter
I would just add that on a throw-in, you can have BI, but you can't have GT. Want to take a crack as to why that is?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdray
I would just include that the touching has gotta be during a field-goal try
You guys are a little slow.
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Old Thu May 31, 2007, 08:01am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1
Nobody has mentioned this, maybe because it's too obvious. But in order to have GT, there must be a try for goal. For BI, it doesn't matter how the ball gets on the rim or in the cylinder. Could be a pass or a deflection. But for GT, it must be a try.

Goaltending:

1. Must be a try.
2. Must be on the way down.
3. Must be completley outside the cylinder.
4. Must be completely above the rim.
5. Must have a chance to go in.

Basket Interference:

1. Can't touch the ball if it's in the cylinder.
2. Can't touch the basket or ball if it's on or in the basket.
3. Can't touch the ball (even outside the cylinder) after reaching through the basket.
4. If rim is moved, it can't contact the ball before returning to its original position.
Pretty complete and concise statement.

I'll add that by rule you cannot have GT on a throw-in ever but you can have BI. For the same reasons, these apply if A1 "shoots" (note quotey things) the ball at B's basket.
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Old Thu May 31, 2007, 08:31am
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Wow. Just wow. You folks are the greatest.

Yea, I got confused about blocking the ball against the backboard. But that wasn't because of OS (don't want to give him/her any credit). It is one of those old myths that I've still retained, I guess. I own it now, though!

Thanks for all the comments. This helps a LOT!! And I hope it's really useful for others as well. I think I'll lock it up before it gets to be a fight. Others can PM if they have useful comments to add. editted to add: Okay, it's another myth. I thought I could lock up my own thread, but I guess not. MODS!! Can you lock it up at my request to preserve the usefulness and completeness of this thread?? Thanks

Last edited by rainmaker; Thu May 31, 2007 at 08:35am.
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Old Thu May 31, 2007, 08:45am
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Why would they lock this?
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Old Thu May 31, 2007, 08:50am
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because it's so good just the way it is. I don't want anyone to ruin it.
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 31, 2007, 08:55am
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If folks would read the posts of others, there wouldn't be so much redundancy.
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