We don't need no stinkin' new rules - or do we?

[chartrusepengui]

Ok, - I understand - but isn't that just a personal foul? I have been to our required state meetings where it has been emphasized that personal fouls can sometimes be violent in nature as far as contact is concerned, but NOT flagrant or intentional. My point is that instead of changing terminology - just to call it appropriately. I don't think that changing terminology is going to change the way excess contact is called. JMO :-)

[Jimgolf]

How about a rule where the coach is not permitted to speak to the officials?

A long time ago coaches were not permitted to even coach their players during games, only sit on the bench quietly. I saw a copy of a news item where coaches were first permitted to coach during timeouts (might have been in Springfield at the Hall of Fame, don't remember). Ahh, the good old days.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

Ok, - I understand - but isn't that just a personal foul? I have been to our required state meetings where it has been emphasized that personal fouls can sometimes be violent in nature as far as contact is concerned, but NOT flagrant or intentional. My point is that instead of changing terminology - just to call it appropriately. I don't think that changing terminology is going to change the way excess contact is called. JMO :-)

sometimes, but a foul can also be intentional based solely on the severity.

[chartrusepengui]

How about we keep the terminology we already have, but ADD the flagrant level one. That way, a foul could still be "intentional" with the penalty even if the contact is not flagrant in any way.

[Adam]

So you'd have two different fouls, with two different names, with exactly the same penalty?

[FrankHtown]

Coach: How can that be an intentional foul? I know both of the shooter's arms are broken, but my player was going for the ball.

[lukealex]

What about changing a T to POI like NCAA? I can see the pros and cons of both sides, but it seems like the FED is taking the rules of NCAA slowly but surely.

[JRutledge]

I would also like to get rid of the terminology of what we call an "intentional foul." I think another word could be used but I would not necessarily want to use the NBA terminology. I think the terminology causes a lot of problems because coaches use the "he was going for the ball" line. We do not call intentional fouls based on if it was intentional or not.

Peace

[Adam]

Maybe we could call them "Intensive fouls?"

[chartrusepengui]

exactly my point - what's really the point of changing? What is accomplished? I contend - absolutely nothing is accomplished exept that not all "intentional" fouls are flagrant and should not be labeled that way ..... but flagrant fouls can be intentional.

[w_sohl]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So you'd have two different fouls, with two different names, with exactly the same penalty?

You mean like a hold and a push, or a hand check and illegal contact? Different names same penalties.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by w_sohl

You mean like a hold and a push, or a hand check and illegal contact? Different names same penalties.

Those are personal fouls. I'm not saying I'm completely averse to the idea, but I'm not sure "flagrant 1" is the best term to use. It carries too many connotations; I think a lot of officials will be slow to call it based on terminology alone; just like the current "intentional foul."
Personally, I like "hard foul," "excessive foul," or even "intensive foul." Lumping them in with "intentional foul" while maintaining separate terms may not be a bad idea; it would have to grow on me.

[BillyMac]

From JRutledge: "The problem with calling this a "hard foul" is the fact that all intentional fouls are not hard in nature. There are fouls that a defender just grabs someone and not a very violent outcome is a result. I would disagree in using that terminology. Then coaches would say, “That was not a hard foul at all.”

We have been told to only verbalize "Hard foul" to the table when the intentional foul is a result of excessive contact. When excessive contact occurs, we make the intentional foul signal as a preliminary signal at the spot of the foul, move to the table, report the foul using the intentional foul signal, and verbalize "Hard foul". For other types of intentional fouls, we do not say "Hard foul", but rather we verbalize "Intentional foul".