Self bat

[Old School]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Ok, I appriciate that.

Just so you understand, the reason for this long thread is to differentiate the wording in that rule as to whether the touch after the bat over the defender's head is a violation, or simply a way to end the dribble.

Actually, I got this part but I'm not so sure we are all in agreement on the answer.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Take the OP, but change the ending slightly: A1 dribbles up to B1, bats the ball up over B1, runs around B1, taking 4 or 5 steps to do so, and continues the dribble after the ball bounces once behind B1. I've gathered from your previous posts that you would call this a travel, because there is no such thing as batting the ball to yourself, and taking several steps to do so. However, you would be entirely wrong because of the wording of 4-15-2. You would've screwed A1 out of a possession because you did not fully understand the rules and their intent.

No, I understand the intent just fine, it's all the discussion on batting the ball that was troublesome. To me, once we enter into batting the ball, we are entering into an interrupted dribble. My position hasn't changed though, you can not pass (not bounce-pass) the ball to yourself. I call that bball 101.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Also, as far as not being able to bat the ball to yourself, think of it this way: isn't a dribble nothing more than batting the ball to yourself off the ground?

I agree and I'm not arguing that at all, but remember, I think it was Wilt Chamberlain that batted the ball off the rebound all the way down the court without dribbling and scored. Since no one could jump as high as him, the defense had no way of stopping the play accept to foul him. Not what we want.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Knowing specific terms and definitions is important in understanding how the game should be officiated.

Knowing the intent and purpose of the rule is paramount. Sometimes the details behind the rules gets in the way of just managing the game and getting the right call. What I'm talking about here is overthinking the play.