game plat situation #2

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Thanks, Juulie.

The easiest way to remember "(you/she/her/his/George) and (me/myself/I/etc.)" situations is just to remove the other person from the equation.

Correct. "you and I" should only be used as the subject. "you and me" is correct.

Mrs. Tillman, God rest her soul, would be proud of me for remembering that!

Here endeth the lesson.

[BBarnaky]

It is unfortunate that people attempt to judge one based on number of posts and comments made. I was merely attempting to say I have seen many jabs at individuals about their comments that are personal attacks rather than OPINION. Opinion is great, it stimulates growth and thoughts. Personal attacks because one works rec ball or one works in a higher league and shouldn't work high school and use college philosophies should be unacceptable.

My comments were based on the personal attacks on others on the board that I have read. I haven't posted because I have chosen to read and not say anything. However, no where in my post did I ever personally criticize an opinion of another's post on a particular rule or play. I did, however; attempt to point out personal attacks on individuals on the board. Unfortunately, based on the lastest posts, some have missed the point entirely. Oh well. The power of the English language is strong and unfortunately some don't know how to use it.

I did comment that common sense on this particular rebounding play would tell me to call a foul. If A is standing out of bounds and the ball hits A, it is out on A, I understand, that is a rule!! I was merely talking about common sense on the particular rebound play that was posted by CREW!!! This is philosophy and not a rule situation!!!

All levels need officials. My comment to that was not to criticize a young college official that works both college and high school, even if he does apply NBA and/or NCAA philosophies (not rules) to that high school game. We need good officials no matter what level!!! Please do not misconstrue that rec ball officials are no good and higher level officials are!!! We need good rec ball officials and all the way on up to the highest league in the land.

I'm done with this now. Have a good day.

[Mark Dexter]

You're correct that the OOB goes to A because of the rule.

Similarly, BY RULE, any contact in this situation would be a foul on the rebounder, or nothing. You cannot BY RULE have a foul on the person on the floor under NFHS and College rules.

NF 4-23-1: "Every player is entitled to a spot on the floor provided such player gets there first without illegally contacting an opponent."

NCAA 4-33-3: Same thing, slightly different wording.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by mick

Did Lynn find someone else herself?

No, but had I been up there alone, I would have said "To buy tickets, see me." Only I can see myself (at least, grammatically, that is).

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by BBarnaky
The power of the English language is strong and unfortunately some don't know how to use it.

No, you're not criticizing anyone.

I did comment that common sense on this particular rebounding play would tell me to call a foul. If A is standing out of bounds and the ball hits A, it is out on A, I understand, that is a rule!! I was merely talking about common sense on the particular rebound play that was posted by CREW!!! This is philosophy and not a rule situation!!!

Uhhhh! Multple exclamation points. You must really be pissed off.

So, you're saying that the NF doesn't give us any guidance with this type of play? It's totally up to the individual officiating the game? I suggest you read 4-23-1 and 10.6.1 E for a rule and a case play that are specifically on point.

I'm done with this now.

Sure you are.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by BBarnaky
I will agree with those who answered a foul on the player lying on the floor. As an ex-player and now official myself common sense tells all fans, players, coaches, and officials that a player who makes an athletic play at the rim level and grabs a rebound is entitled to land with his feet firmly on the floor without having to hurdle or dodge a player lying sprawled out on the ground. I would have a foul here.

As far as the comments about going to camp and applying NCAA and NBA rules and philosophies to high school games, I have no comment for such low blows. However, there aren't enough good officials out there to begin with from middle school and on up the playing levels. Let's keep a big picture approach and not direct comments at people who do work in several higher leagues and high school at the same time. The game is in NEED of good officials and good people

I think that you had better go back and read NFHS R4-S27 and NCAA R4-S37 (incidental contact) and well as the NFHS and NCAA sections on prinicple of verticality and securing a legal position on the floor.

Your comments concerning athletic play is not supported by the rules. ONe of the fundamental requirements of the rules is that a player must complete the entire play without making illegal contact. That player who leaves the floor must do so within the rules of the game. If A1 jumps out of his cylinder of verticality and lands on a B1 who is legally occupying a spot on the floor, then the responsibility to avoid contact is on A1. Common sense does not have anything to do with this play. The fact that he had to dodge or hurdle a player who is legally occupying a space on the floor is of no consequence. Either A1 can complete the play without making illegal contact with B1 or he cannot.

With regard to common sense it is of no consequence. Just because coaches, players and fans think this is a foul on A1 and not B1 is no reason for you to not apply the rules correctly. One of my favorite examples of the ignorance of the rules by coaches, players and fans is that they know that traveling is a violation but they do not know what is traveling.

And I have nothing against officials who officiate at many levels. Every year I will officiate between 350 and 400 games and they will range from boys' and girls' jr. H.S. to H.S. varsity, men's and women's small college and jr. college, Special Olympics, CYO boys' and girls', men's rec., and AAU and YBOA regional and national tournaments. That means that I have to officiate within the requirements of the level of the play involved. More importantly, the rules for players and H.S. age and younger are written with them in mind, it is not good officiating to apply concepts of officiating games played at the adult level to games played at the youth level.