1. So let me get this straight. You are saying that you did VARSITY high school games when you were 15 and 16 and you claim that you were fully ready and capable of running the show? That's hogswash, and you know it. You had some other officials there who were adults that carried you. You made a few calls here and there and likely did a serviceable job, but didn't have an ounce of game control. Someone else did that for you. BTW times were vastly different forty years ago!

2. The people who start officiating youth games at 12/13 do gain some valuable experience, however, it is not proper to contend that they have 8,9, or 10 years of experience by the time they hit 21. Those early years of kiddie ball just don't equate the same way as someone who was 25 and started working freshman and jv games with local HS association. There is a big difference in the environment.

3. In fact, the hard time getting and retaining officials is the very reason that most of these people are still out there. If there were greater numbers of officials and stiffer competition for games, this issue would take care of itself, but instead I see many associations pander to the older veterans for fear that they might quit if they aren't still being given the "big game" thus leaving the association short-handed the next season. I've argued that watching these old-timers continue to get the premium assignments year after year is a greater problem. The younger officials become discouraged and call it quits after five or six years of being stuck behind the old guys. IMO that is the biggest cause of the lack of retention of officials. There was a discussion on here not so long ago about female officials up in the Portland area quitting because they felt that they couldn't break through and get playoff games. One poster wrote that many were just on the verge of receiving those assignments when they quit. Clearly a case of dissatisfaction with paying their dues and waiting their turn. How many officials are lost in this manner because the "experienced" official was chosen for the semi-final?

It has been my observation that once an official goes to the top, he never goes back down. Most associations are very good about promoting deserving officials, but are very poor at demoting those who no longer perform as they once did. This creates a blockage at the top. Something must be done to relieve it.

1) No, I'm saying that I was <b>ready</b> by age 21 to be fully capable to officiate varsity games. And I was given the opportunity because other local people thought that I was ready. And the reason that I was ready was that I was allowed to gain the necessary experience and knowledge through the help of veteran officials who wanted to develop younger officials. I was <b>taught</b> how to be an official, and I was also working my azz off at the same time doing what I was being taught. I listened and learned because I <b>wanted</b> to be a good official. Using your recommended procedure, that just ain't ever gonna happen. And that's exactly why your proposed age limits might be the most ridiculous thing that you've ever written here. And for you, believe me, that's saying something.
As for not happening now? Our association regularly tries to recruit local high school students in the 15-16 year old range. We train 'em and use them in local house league and kids rec programs. If they go away to college, we'll find an association nearby that they can join to keep officiating, and also help get them into an intramural program. Hopefully, we'll get some of them back eventually with their love of officiating intact. Others that might not want to go to college still officiate locally, and they proceed up the ladder as they gain skill and experience. We always lose some, but the ones that we manage to keep are nothing but a help to our association. Of course, some never turn into good officials, but that doesn't mean that they don't turn into serviceable officials. I know that we aren't the only ones around doing that either.

2) Howinthehell can you be a spokesman for people that you know absolutely nothing about? You don't have a clue as to what each <b>individual</b> official is going to be like at any age or stage of their development. They're people, not cloned robots. They're all different and they all develop and mature differently. And that's why what you're proposing is so damn ridiculous. It assumes that every person is exactly the same, learns at the same rate, develops at the same rate, etc. That's nonsense and that's why you'll never see anything like what you're proposing ever happen. Sheer doodoo!

3) Didn't get picked for the big games again, did you?:D
Of course cronyism lives. The idea though is that you try to fix that problem, not something that is completely different and maybe isn't a problem. You don't fix that problem by installing hairbrain programs that have got diddley-squat to do with the problem. Yup, let's limit the opportunities of two different groups of officials by installing artificial age barriers. It doesn't matter how good of an official they are either. Or what kind of physical shape that they are in. All that matters is their birth date. I really hate to break this to you, Nevada, but if there is favoritism and cronyism present in an association, it's going to be used with 25-45 year old officials too. Someone in that age group might be going to State even though a 24 or 46 year-old official might be doing a much better job. You are just incredibly naive imo.

Nevada, you should evaluate and judge each official by what they can <b>do</b> on the floor, not by numbers on a birth certificate. Maybe in the Reno, Nevada area, every <b>single</b> official over the age of 50 is no longer competent to do the big games and no official under 25 is ready to do those big games either(as you are intimating), but I really don't think that holds true for the rest of the country-- and world. JMO of course.

Nitrate levels?

Great. Even though I go to the trouble of putting the idiot on my ignore list I still get exposed to his moronic opinions. Would you people pls avoid quoting nevada's ill informed and inane comments in your replies to him? Thanks.

btw Jeff you are absolutely correct. There are 19 & 20 yr olds today making split second decisions that potentially have long term worldwide impact, both positive and negative. Same as 50+ year olds.

Seems the height of stupidity to state that a basketball game is too important to let people in these age groups officiate because we can't trust them to not f@ck it up.

This level is beyond high school. The managers and coaches are working in it for a living and are intense. These young umpires do great work at game management at an age you don't think they're ready for high school ball.

And, as you say, this isn't just the opinion of a single person. This is the opinion and the standard of an entire industry.

To say that age counts more than performance is inane and further proof of the old adage: Youth is wasted on the young.

Welcome to the list Neverref. Say hi to Old School while you're in there.

{Ignore List} = Open
{Neverref} = Add
{Ignore List} = Close

Aren't we beating a dead horse in this thread?

MTD, Sr.

Every now and then you come across an idea so stupid it needs to be beaten- even after it's dead...Nevada's idea would certainly qualify!

Why do you say that it is my idea? Do you think that I came up with it all on my own? I've already stated that FIFA does it and has done so since well before I got involved with officiating.

For those like GarthB who need to resort to namecalling and wish to add me to their ignore lists simply because we have a difference of opinion on some issue seems awfully immature and small-minded. Afterall this is a discussion forum where people can express their opinions.
But go ahead use your ignore function, it won't hurt me any.
It's also fine with me if someone doesn't agree with the views I express, but I expect them to do it civilly. I strive to do that with others. One of the first things that I wrote on this topic was that my view wasn't going to be popular. I was well-aware of that before anyone even responded. That doesn't mean that the concept is without merit or worthy of discussion.

BTW doesn't the FAA have an age limit for commerical airlines pilots? Why aren't they evaluated solely upon performance and physical fitness? Shouldn't someone be upset that we don't have 70 year-old pilots out there?:D

Yes they do, but it sure ain't 50 years old. According to a friend of mine who is, or rather was, a senior pilot for American Airlines, the mandatory retirement age is 65.

Yeah, you stated what FIFA does. What you <b>didn't</b> state was the size of the soccer playing area versus the size of a basketball court, or the number of players either.
- an international soccer field is a minimum of 110 <b>yards</b> by 70 yards. The maximum size is 120 yards by 80 yards. Iow, the field must lie between 69,300 square <b>feet</b> and 86,600 square feet.
- A high school court is 84 <b>feet</b> by 50 feet and a college court is 94 feet by 50 feet. Iow, the court must lie between 4200 square <b>feet</b> and 4700 square feet.
- Comparing maximum dimensions, a soccer field is over <b>EIGHTEEN(18)</b> times bigger than a college basketball court.
- Comparing minimum dimensions a soccer field is over <b>SIXTEEN(16)</b> bigger than a high school court.
- Soccer uses <b>one</b> on-field official.
-Basketball uses a minimum of <b>two</b> officials and an </b>optimum</b> of <b>three</b> officials.
- <b>One</b> on-field soccer official is asked to keep his eye on a total of <b>22</b> players.
- Two or three basketball officials are asked to keep an eye on a total of <b>10</b> players.

Sooooo, to properly evaluate your great idea, we would have to put basketball standards at each end of a soccer field, increase the number of players per team from 5 to 11, and have <b>ONE</b> official try to officiate that game. Of course, you would also give him a person on each sideline to call the out-of-bounds. Under those conditions, I'll kinda agree with you that your poor l'il lonesome official out there better damnwell be in great physical condition, and age restrictions might make sense. It's the same as trying to do a college or pro football game with <b>one</b> official. Of course, what makes <b>more</b> sense would be to put <b>more</b> officials out on the field for better play coverage and thus cut down the physical requirements needed of an official. Obviously, FIFA...and <b>you</b>.....haven't been able to come up with anything quite so.....logical.....as that.

You're comparing apples to elephants.

Your whacko idea might be worthy of discussion but it sureasheck is bereft of even a shred of merit.

Wow...JR dusted off the old abacus!! However, you forgot that the main reason FIFA has to institute an age limit is to insure that the official can - after 90+ minutes of running up and down that huge field - still outrun all the hooligans doing their best to catch and kill him!!

Got a friend who just had knee surgery last month...went to visit him and his surgeon happened to be in the room checking up on him. The surgeon had to be in his late 60's...buddy is up and around and doing great. Under Nevada's logic, my buddy wouldn't have had that excellent surgeon because the guy was too old and some younger surgeon needed that experience...

All I know is when I get on an airplane, I prefer to see the 60 year old, silver haired pilot, than a 23 year old there for the experience.

don't like flying over the rockies doing barrell rolls eh?

JR quit doing that when he found out that he could go blind.:eek:

Once again I have to go find a rag to wipe the coffee off my monitor...haven't had to do that since the other day when I saw that the BoSux had rallied against Rivera to win the game!!