In case you haven't hear...Joey Crawford

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by zebraman

I saw some fantastic NCAA officials over the age of 50 this season. I saw some young, new faces that were obviously struggling. I also see some "younger officials" who do not stay in shape year-round and they struggle with injuries frequently.

There is no substitute for experience.

Age shouldn't be the issue. It should be all about performance.

I don't necessarily agree with the 50 year old thing, but wanted to point some things out.

Some of the younger officials who could be perceived to be struggling could have been calling the game as Mr. Nichols would like it to be called. Sometimes coaches are all over officials they don't know/trust - as if a coach's trust is a determining factor in how good an official is.

Gaining experience now is different from 20 years ago. Look at the thread with the list of camps and look at how much basketball is out there.

Yes, age shouldn't be the issue and performance should. However, if that was the case the whole landscape of officiating could and probably would change.

Although I think NBA officials are the best in the world, there was probably a mistake in this situation. Joey Crawford is one of the best officials in the game and I don't really believe it is all on him - Duncan did get a fine. I don't agree with suspending him for the rest of the year either. A $25,000 fine for Duncan is nothing. Stern does what is best for the league to keep making money.
There have been rumors of Bevetta taking over for Ronnie Nunn when he retires.

Now, back to the arguments.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You know at that level that every team has a "book" on every single official. The players and coaches should know what he's like, and if they're smart, they should try to adjust to him rather than vice-versa.

What's the baseball equivalent? You may think my strike zone is terrible, but it's not changing for the rest of the game, so get used to it? (The more eloquent version would be appreciated, if anyone knows it.)

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I would like to see the NCAA and the NBA follow the lead of FIFA and put in an age cap. FIFA's is 45. Doesn't matter who you are, after that age is attained, you must hang 'em up.

45??? Yikes!

I know guys in their 40s and 50s who are in far better shape (and can do a much better job of officiating a game) than I am (can).

When to stop should be an individual call based on each ref's physical performance.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

When I reach 50, I'm giving it up. I'm not going to be one of those old-timers that I see out there just holding on.

I would like to see the NCAA and the NBA follow the lead of FIFA and put in an age cap. FIFA's is 45. Doesn't matter who you are, after that age is attained, you must hang 'em up.

Nevada - how old are you right now?

[deecee]

Coach Jinx you still didnt answer my question as to what association you are with.

As for Nevada and his age requirement -- phooey

The only thing I would like to see is some younger guys maybe given a chance a bit sooner to prove themselves but as far as age -- either you can officiate or you cannot.

Dan, how can you lump Nevada and Old School in the same category? Old school is a top D1 official who doesnt own a rulebook, Nevada owns a rulebook and he has proven that many times.

any Mr. Tyler when is your next tour gonna be coming out to SoCal and can you hook me up with tickets?

[Texas Aggie]

I wonder what action, if any, the union would take. They can effectively shut down the NBA playoffs if they decide to walk out.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I wonder what action, if any, the union would take. They can effectively shut down the NBA playoffs if they decide to walk out.

Wow, that would be something.

On the other hand, this didn't work out too well for the baseball guys when they tried something similar.

But I've been wondering what the union will have to say about this too. I expect it'll be along the lines of "Joey mind the door on the way out".

[deecee]

i have never seen officials band together 100% when the times come.

there are always a good number of I am out for me -- so as far as official unions I think they are a joke.

not to mention the high number of available scabs that would welcome any opportunity to advance their career.

Unofrtunately from experience I have noticed that officials always complain about how much they make -- yet they NEVER draw the line as to how much they are worth. You can always find officials for almost any amount to work games (doesnt mean they will be good) however a lot of guys are happy just hiring warm bodies to work the games.

So Joey better watch it because that door will be heavy and it will swing hard when it hits him in the bum on his way out.

I have only seen 1 or 2 guys stand up when a situation isnt right and I have walked out on games before because site admin tried to lowball how much they were going to pay after we were told X amount. Even though the amount was minute I do not appreciate bush league tactics and if I agree to work games with certain conditions I expect those conditions to be upheld or there is no reason for me to hold my end of the bargain and work those games. However many guys will just b!tch about it and stay and complain.

If Joey quits I would say good for him -- I think this suspension is a bit much. Nick Van Excel tossed an official and got what 10 games. Stepehn jackson went Tyson on a fan and got what 10-20 games. Crawford made an error in judgement based on league mandated protocols that IMO were ad hoc and not fully thought through regarding players and their actions. Granted hes a hot head but hes still got 30 years of experiecne and is maybe top3 in the NBA. This is just a case of him being a perfect scape goat for the leauge to say that they hold their officials accountable too (and unfortunately to a much higher standard than their ACTUAL product -- the players).

Let him sit the first round -- however as a coach/player -- I would want the best officials available working as many playoff games as possible. Just keep him away from San Antonio. Not like the SPurs will be in the finals let alone their regional championship.

Here is something I would like to see addressed -- Teams packing it in for that wonderful top 3 LOTTERY pick.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

But I've been wondering what the union will have to say about this too.

You may never find out. The NBRA appealed Rodney Mott's suspension and didn't get anywhere afaik. It's kinda different when you have to appeal to Stern, the guy who gave out Crawford's suspension in the first place. What is he gonna say--"I was wrong"? Somehow I don't think so. Also according to the story on the union web site, officials can't publicly rebut charges against them without risking additional sanctions. Iow, Crawford is not allowed to tell his side of the story. That's probably a contractual obligation, but it seems kinda funny when one side can comment publicly but the other side can't.

http://www.probasketballrefs.com/Default.aspx?tabid=274

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You may never find out. The NBRA appealed Rodney Mott's suspension and didn't get anywhere afaik. It's kinda different when you have to appeal to Stern, the guy who gave out Crawford's suspension in the first place. What is he gonna say--"I was wrong"? Somehow I don't think so. Also according to the story on the union web site, officials can't publicly rebut charges against them without risking additional sanctions. Iow, Crawford is not allowed to tell his side of the story. That's probably a contractual obligation, but it seems kinda funny when one side can comment publicly but the other side can't.

http://www.probasketballrefs.com/Default.aspx?tabid=274

Yeahbut he can retire & write a book all about it, can't he?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Yeahbut he can retire & write a book all about it, can't he?

This is true. Too bad that he's 55 years old though or he could possibly officiate at other levels. Unfortunately, that's 5 years past his expiry date according to The One From Nevada Who Knows All. Yup, Crawford would be way too old to do a high school game.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

This is true. Too bad that he's 55 years old though or he could possibly officiate at other levels. Unfortunately, that's 5 years past his expiry date according to The One From Nevada Who Knows All. Yup, Crawford would be way too old to do a high school game.

Maybe the union can get an audience with the emperor and get special dispensation.

Who knows, even stranger things have happened in the Land of the Third World that he rules.

[RookieDude]

Nevada...Nevada...Nevada.

Say it ain't so...say you have made a mistake in regards to this age thing and move on.

While you are contemplating this...I'll tell you a little story.

I know a guy that STARTED officiating at about age 32. He wanted to stay involved with athletics since he had a Phis. Ed Degree and wasn't Teaching/Coaching anymore. This individual went to camps...watched veterans...listened...got involved in the local association's board...worked his way up to a full H.S. Varsity schedule...went to several State Tournaments...continues to work out at least 3 to 4 times a week(all year long)...hit his 50th Birthday last June...and was even complimented by a certain individual from Nevada on a recent video that was shown.

I don't think this guy is quite ready to "hang it up" yet...as he can probably still contribute to the officiating pool, locally at least.

My suggestion to you, Nevada, is to not limit yourself age wise. You might surprise yourself...and still be able to contribute at the ripe old age of 50.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by deecee

If Joey quits I would say good for him -- I think this suspension is a bit much. Nick Van Excel tossed an official and got what 10 games. Stepehn jackson went Tyson on a fan and got what 10-20 games. Crawford made an error in judgement based on league mandated protocols that IMO were ad hoc and not fully thought through regarding players and their actions. Granted hes a hot head but hes still got 30 years of experiecne and is maybe top3 in the NBA. This is just a case of him being a perfect scape goat for the leauge to say that they hold their officials accountable too (and unfortunately to a much higher standard than their ACTUAL product -- the players).

Incorrect. Joey broke the code of ethics and the punishment fit the crime. Remember, the fine is suspended indefinitely. What exactly does that mean? The Commish, very eloquently left that door open. Joey career in the NBA is not over. He's just done for this year and with that mistake he should be. And yes, we are held to a higher standard and Joey crossed that line.

Originally Posted by deecee

Let him sit the first round -- however as a coach/player -- I would want the best officials available working as many playoff games as possible. Just keep him away from San Antonio. Not like the SPurs will be in the finals let alone their regional championship.

I hate that line, I want the best available officials working. That's crap. That's just another way to exclude an official and if you are the coach, get the guy you like the most on your games. BS I tell you. If you are talking Joey being one of the best officials, then why did he do that? The best don't make that mistake. My point is anybody can make a mistake and anybody can referee a playoff game or championship game. I'm in the camp that Joey should not be suspended for life, and he's still one of the best officials. But don't give me this BS that he's the only official in the NBA that can work the playoff's. No, any official that's on the roster should be able to work a playoff game.

That meltdown that Joey just did, you're telling me, as an assigner, you would give him a playoff game? That be an insult to all the other officials on your staff. No, no, no. You make that mistake, you want be assigning much longer, either.

Here is a classic case for all us to learn today. This is how you get knocked off the roster. I bet you in most cases, this is how officials get replaced. Sadly, but one has to fall for another to rise. At least, Joey got no one to blame but himself.

[Adam]

I'm curious. Was Crawford suspended for the quick Ts on Duncan, or for the exchange afterwards?