game play situation?

[crew]

game play situation? a1 drives to the hole(with the ball), while shooting he is fouled on the arm by b1, b2 however has maintained legal position between a1 and the basket in wich a1 charges into b2. the try is unsuccesful. how would you guys administer this play? dont give rule reference but what you would if this happened in your primary. be honest!

[Edited by crew on Dec 7th, 2001 at 01:38 AM]

[RookieDude]

Honestly?

If A1's ball goes in the basket after the foul on the airborne shooter by B1...take away the basket because of the player control foul on A1 commited on B2.
A1 shoots two free throws because of the shooting foul by B1.

False Double Foul

[Hawks Coach]

B1's foul on A1 occurred prior to A1 contacting B2. We have a foul on B1. I would expect shot to count and that A1's PC foul on B2 never happened - incidental contact after the B1 foul. I can't see a ref trying to sell a double foul in this case. How do we know that the initial B1 foul didn't contribute to A1 contacting B2? If so, can you really call a foul on A1 when a foul committed against A1 caused A1 to contact B2? Even if this is not precisely what happened, do you really want to call a false double foul and to try to explain that to me and my opponent? Better to tell B's coach that B committed the foul first. Won't be the first time that a poor play by one player negates a great play by another.

[bigwhistle]

Even though there is pretty much a direct casebook describing this play as a false double....I would penalize the first foul only....and tell the coach that the first foul created the situation for the after effect contact with the 2nd player.

Right or wrong, you asked what I would do.

[williebfree]

This appears to be a clear-cut FOUL on B1.

Maybe I am a "simpleton", but I would not go looking for more on this play.

Count the basket, adminster the FT, move on.

[RookieDude]

I'm surprised there are no responses from some of the "regulars" on this post...

RookieDude

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by RookieDude
I'm surprised there are no responses from some of the "regulars" on this post...

That's because there's been a rash of posts this week that have been discussed during the previous 2 or 3 weeks.

See the post linked below for responses from the "regulars."

http://www.officialforum.com/showthr...?threadid=3263

[hooters]

i think the false double was put in the rules for sh1ts and giggles. or somebody could have lost a bet! smiley face goes here

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Yes, there is a NFHS Casebook Play that addresses this play directly. LeThe Casebook Play states that if A1 would have charged into B2 whether or not B1 had made with A1, then you have a false double foul: foul by B1 against A2 (personal foul against a player in the act of shooting) and then a charging foul (player control in this play, unless NCAA Men's Rules).

Under NFHS and NCAA Women's Rules, do not score the goal if the ball went thru the basket, A1 shoots two free throws for the foul by B1 with no one lined up on the free throw lane and Team B gets a throw-in nearest the spot of A1's foul.

Under NCAA Men's Rules, score the basket if the ball went thru the basket and A1 shoots the appropriate number of free throws with no one lined up on the , then Team B gets a throw-in nearest the spot of A1's foul if Team B is not in the bonus or B1 shoots free throws if Team B is in the bonus and these free throws are shot as if A1's foul was the only foul involved (in otherwords, players are lined up along the free throw lane).

Having said all of that above. The postings in this thread have taken one of two directions: 1) follow the NFHS Casebook Play, or 2) rule that the foul by B1 caused A1 to charge into B2.

Those posters who follow (2), use the theory that the official will have difficulty selling the play. That may or may not be so. It is this writer's opinion the whether an official goes with (1) or (2) depends on the how the entire play takes place. And right now my butt hurts from sitting on the fence on this play.

Going with (2) is easy to do (and I gone with it myself) when play in the paint is very congested. If fact, when this situation does occurs it is a very good chance that B1's foul really did cause A1 to make contact with B2.

But if the lane is wide open and B1 comes from the side of A1 and his foul on A1's arm does not alter A1's drive to the basket, by all means go with (1). The theory behind this school of thought is that when A1 begins his drive to the basket he must be able to complete his play (jump, shoot, and return to the floor) without making illegal contact with an opponent who has a legal position before A1 became airborne.

When situation (1) occurs an official should not feel inhibited from going with the false double foul because of having to explain it to a coach, after all, that is why we are paid the big dollars, to make these kinds of decisions.