I probably should have

jsblanton · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 10, 2007, 11:59am

I am new to this forum and new to basketball officiating. Not that these are good excusses but it's better than none. I was doing a game between two very good JV teams. One point game with a 5.4 seconds left. Team that is behind steals ball on the baseline and then clearly steps out of bounds. I am the lead and I am right on top of it. I make the call, point in the correct direction and the coach of the team that is behind (also visiting) calls time-out and while going to the huddle he asks me if I am sure. I said yes, absolutley, and he told me "It's obvious what is going on here". After the game was over I thought about it and I think I should have given him a T for questioning my integrity. Just thought I would see what some of you thought.

Dan_ref · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 10, 2007, 12:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsblanton

"It's obvious what is going on here".

Don't be shy. He thinks he can take a cheap shot because it's subtle. It's not subtle.

"What's going on here coach? What exactly do you mean?? Are you accusing me of cheating?"

He'll either back off or say what's on his mind. What you do next depends on how he reacts.

JoeTheRef · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 10, 2007, 12:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Don't be shy. He thinks he can take a cheap shot because it's subtle. It's not subtle.

"What's going on here coach? What exactly do you mean?? Are you accusing me of cheating?"

He'll either back off or say what's on his mind. What you do next depends on how he reacts.

This is my preferred method of handling that situation. If he's a jacka$$ he'll probably clarify or say something more to justify a whack. If not, he'll definitely know the next he sees you that you won't be taking any of his mess.

#4 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 10, 2007, 12:18pm

Sounds like a bright coach IMO. He worded that "statement" just right, the interpretation could be taken a couple different ways. Even though we know exactly what he meant, he left a backdoor open for himself. It's hard to say whether I'd bang him or not since I didn't work the game.

Did you ask him to clarify?
Has he been borderline the whole game?
Had he already been issued a T?

deecee · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 10, 2007, 12:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsblanton

I am new to this forum and new to basketball officiating. Not that these are good excusses but it's better than none. I was doing a game between two very good JV teams. One point game with a 5.4 seconds left. Team that is behind steals ball on the baseline and then clearly steps out of bounds. I am the lead and I am right on top of it. I make the call, point in the correct direction and the coach of the team that is behind (also visiting) calls time-out and while going to the huddle he asks me if I am sure. I said yes, absolutley, and he told me "It's obvious what is going on here". After the game was over I thought about it and I think I should have given him a T for questioning my integrity. Just thought I would see what some of you thought.

i have had something similar -- my response would be "what's obvious is you just called a timout and your team needs your attention."

Junker · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 10, 2007, 12:57pm

A rule of thumb I was taught is that if you feel you left one out there, you probably did.

Texas Aggie · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 10, 2007, 01:23pm

I disagree with responding. He's simply looking to blame you for the loss, so he's throwing out a somewhat neutral dig. I wouldn't over analyze it. For me, it goes in one ear and out the other, and we play on.

There's a lot of folks on here that suggest ignoring this stuff makes it happen more in the future. Sort of a, "you always let them get away with..." I disagree. My approach has been to get what's there and ignore what's not, or what would be if the talking kept up. I've had coaches that do stuff like this, and when I have them again, they don't step up the abuse more. Coaches I've worked regularly know I'm going to enforce the rules and I rarely have a lot of problems in that respect.

WAWhistleBlower · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 10, 2007, 01:28pm

I agree with Texas Aggie - 5.4 secs left in the game, that remark needs to be ignored. Let the kids win or lose this one, don't let the coach make you the bad guy.

Maybe earlier in the game, depending on who else heard it....

Jurassic Referee · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 10, 2007, 02:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by WAWhistleBlower

1) 5.4 secs left in the game, that remark needs to be ignored.

2)Let the kids win or lose this one, don't let the coach make you the bad guy.

Maybe earlier in the game, depending on who else heard it....

I cringe when I read statements like those.

Ref in PA · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 10, 2007, 01:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I disagree with responding. He's simply looking to blame you for the loss, so he's throwing out a somewhat neutral dig. I wouldn't over analyze it. For me, it goes in one ear and out the other, and we play on.

There's a lot of folks on here that suggest ignoring this stuff makes it happen more in the future. Sort of a, "you always let them get away with..." I disagree. My approach has been to get what's there and ignore what's not, or what would be if the talking kept up. I've had coaches that do stuff like this, and when I have them again, they don't step up the abuse more. Coaches I've worked regularly know I'm going to enforce the rules and I rarely have a lot of problems in that respect.

Unfortunately, for this ref, that was not the case. He is new, the coach did not know him nor did he know the coach.

If that type of a statement is ever said to me, I am either going to ask the coach to clarify or T him (depending on his behavior prior to making the statement). What I heard was the coach calling me a "homer", but not in those words. To me he is implying that. If that is what he really meant, it is an automatic T. Allowing the coach to clarify lets him know that "Homey don't play that game" and gives him some wiggle room to back away from the T he may have already deserved. I don't like to T coaches, but have no problem taking care of business if necessary. Also, this is a JV coach - it is a learning process for him as to what can and cannot be said. Something he needs to learn if he wants to move up.

Texas Aggie · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 10, 2007, 01:42pm

Quote:

What I heard was the coach calling me a "homer", but not in those words.

All I'm going to say is you are walking a very dangerous line here.

WAWhistleBlower · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 10, 2007, 02:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

If that type of a statement is ever said to me, I am either going to ask the coach to clarify or T him (depending on his behavior prior to making the statement).

You do this, then the perception from everyone else in the room is that the referee engaged this coach, especially from this coach's fans. Then they lose, and it's your fault for putting home on the line, thereby proving his point in the comment he made. Self-fulfilling prophecy & not worth going there OR giving the coach the satisfaction of being able to blame the loss over some "hot-headed ref", which is the story he'll tell his team and his parents.

He would learn no lesson here.

NewNCref · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 10, 2007, 02:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by WAWhistleBlower

You do this, then the perception from everyone else in the room is that the referee engaged this coach, especially from this coach's fans. Then they lose, and it's your fault for putting home on the line, thereby proving his point in the comment he made. Self-fulfilling prophecy & not worth going there OR giving the coach the satisfaction of being able to blame the loss over some "hot-headed ref", which is the story he'll tell his team and his parents.

He would learn no lesson here.

1.) A quick "What's going on coach?" is, IMO, not engaging him. It's asking him to clarify what he just said.

2.) Pardon my french, but who gives a damn what the fans think? If I cared what the fans thought about the game, I would have never considered picking up a whistle. If he says something that's T-worthy, then YOU didn't put them on the line, HE did. I don't care what some stupid fanboys think after the game. My job is the enforce the rules as written, not to make sure the game ends to the satisfaction of the fanboys.

deecee · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 10, 2007, 02:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by WAWhistleBlower

You do this, then the perception from everyone else in the room is that the referee engaged this coach, especially from this coach's fans. Then they lose, and it's your fault for putting home on the line, thereby proving his point in the comment he made. Self-fulfilling prophecy & not worth going there OR giving the coach the satisfaction of being able to blame the loss over some "hot-headed ref", which is the story he'll tell his team and his parents.

He would learn no lesson here.

you have a job to do -- the fans are not part of your equation.

Jurassic Referee · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 10, 2007, 02:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by WAWhistleBlower

You do this, then the perception from everyone else in the room is that the referee engaged this coach, especially from this coach's fans. Then they lose, and it's your fault for putting home on the line, thereby proving his point in the comment he made. Self-fulfilling prophecy & not worth going there OR giving the coach the satisfaction of being able to blame the loss over some "hot-headed ref", which is the story he'll tell his team and his parents.

He would learn no lesson here.

Disagree completely. Who cares what anyone in the room thinks? When did we start officiating to please the fans? If someone commits an unsporting act, just call the damn thing instead of making up excuses notto. And from what I've read so far, everything that you've said is just an excuse not to imo. And "5 seconds left in the game", "let the kids win or lose" and worrying about being "a bad guy" are not very good excuses at all as far as I'm concerned.

There surasheck would be a lesson taught here. The lesson is that you can't get away with crap like that. Do what Dan suggested above and take care of bidness.