Coming back inbounds after a save.

[bossref]

Guys
This subject has to do with saving a loose ball.
It was meant for the player who tries to grab
(secure) the ball after a rebound or an errant pass.
It was not meant for discussion of a player
who lost his dribble (control).
I hope this defines the subject more clearly.
And BTW you can start a dribble with a tap.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by crew
bktballref-here is abetter description. a player is dribbling, while not touching the ball he steps on the oob. steps back in and resumes dribbling. violation, right?

IF the player is dribbling, it's a violation as soon as s/he touches oob -- stepping back in and continuing to dribble has nothing to do with it.

when saving from oob. and the player controls the ball(drops, tosses, throws) it is the start of a dribble. therefor he cannot be the first to touch the ball. you have to put a couple of rules together to get the out come.

IF you want to judge the player's actions to be the start of a dribble, then you have to call the violation as soon as the player touches OOB. Personally, I wouldn't call it the start of a dribble except in some pretty specific cases.

[crew]

if a player is dribbling, and while not touching the ball it is not a violation untill he touches the ball again. it is not automatically a violation as soon as he touches the boundary line.

[crew]

boss ref,
securing the ball and then dropping throwing or whatnot is the start of a dribble. i understand what you are saying. this is a different varition of the rule, but with the same facts

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by crew
if a player is dribbling, and while not touching the ball it is not a violation untill he touches the ball again. it is not automatically a violation as soon as he touches the boundary line.

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here, but it sounds like your saying the following:

A1 is dribbling the ball. A1 steps on the OOB boundary line, while A1's hand is NOT in contact with the ball. This is not a violation.

IF that's what you're saying, crew, then you're wrong. A player dribbling the ball has player control even when he's not touching the ball during the dribble. Therefore, as soon as he steps on the OOB line, you have a player in control of the ball while OOB. Violation.

This is specifically stated in 9-3 NOTE. Gotta do a little more studying, there, crew.

Chuck

[crew]

chuck,
what if the player is dribbling the ball, while hand is not in contact with the ball steps oob. and lets the ball just keep bouncing? it is not a violation. it is a violation when he touches the ball after stepping oob.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by crew
chuck,
what if the player is dribbling the ball, while hand is not in contact with the ball steps oob. and lets the ball just keep bouncing? it is not a violation. it is a violation when he touches the ball after stepping oob.

9-3
NOTE: The dribbler has committed a violation if he/she steps on or outside a boundary, even though he/she is not touching the ball while he/she is out of bounds.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by crew
chuck,
what if the player is dribbling the ball, while hand is not in contact with the ball steps oob. and lets the ball just keep bouncing? it is not a violation. it is a violation when he touches the ball after stepping oob.

A dribble doesn't end just because it touches the floor several times between hits of the hand.

[eroe39]

Crew, it all depends on player control. If the player taps the ball in a non-control manner to save the ball from going out of bounds and comes back in and grabs it this is legal. If the player catches the ball and saves it or saves it with a controlled tap which is similar to starting a dribble and then goes out of bounds and comes back in and grabs it this is illegal. (Read BR 94 A.R. 1 Ruling 1st two sentences)

[BktBallRef]

There's no such thing as a controlled tap. A player has control of the ball when he holds it or dribbles it.

[Hawks Coach]

Tony - try this then. A player makes a one handed catch (happens in the NFL almost every Sunday), then throws the ball back onto the court without ever holding the ball with two hands. Call it a controlled tap or a one-handed hold and toss, it's clearly different than batting the ball back to the court. Now the ref must decide whether or not the player had control. But there are times that I would argue players establish clear control with only one hand on the ball.

[BktBallRef]

There's nothing that says he has to hold the ball with two hands to have control. If he catches the ball, he's holding it, no matter how briefly. Most people think a "controlled tap" is when the ball is obviously tapped to a certain area or player. But there's no such animal as a controlled tap. We only confuse the issue when we use such a term. He either caught the ball or he didn't. It's that simple.

[crew]

coach,
i agree a player can have control with one hand.

[Hawks Coach]

tony
I believe that (capital T) Tony also agrees with this concept - his clear objection is to use of imprecise terms to describe this situation. Control is established by catching/holding, and that can be accomplished with one or two hands. A tap is not a catch, and thus the controlled tap is an imprecise term. You either catch and throw (with one or two hands) or you tap. Nothing in between to confuse matters. Makes snse to me.

[crew]

ok, maybe the word "tap" is not the correct terminology. but the key to this play is control. no control=legal, control=illegal.