When "talking heads" are harshly criticized on the forum, you think:

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tomegun

My next question would be to find out what you would consider bashing an official.

You and Steve Welmer.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You and Steve Welmer.

I thought I made it clear from my earlier posts that I was not asking any of those questions to be smart; I really wanted to know what some people thought was appropriate.
I have also said in the past that I have heard nothing but good things about Welmer as a person - which is more important at the end of the day. I have no problem with an official being able to literally make their own schedule at the D1 level - that explains how he can fit so many games in. I have also never said anything about his calls being bad calls or not having the courage to make calls. Heck, I've never said anything about how he moves on the court because I think he moves better than many other officials. IMO, he doesn't make any calls that aren't obvious from the top row and therefore should be left out of any conversations when discussing the truely elite D1 officials. Someone named Hank, and those who's opinion he trusts, agrees with my opinion. I have also said Welmer is not my least favorite official.

I don't know what you would call it, but there seems to be something wrong when someone can accept positive critism, but reject negative critism from the same source. Also, it is hypocritical to say it is wrong to "bash" an official and then talk badly about another fellow official out the other side of your mouth. If you are only drinkin the kool aid from those above you, you might miss something good from those on your level or below.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tomegun

1) I have also never said anything about his calls being bad calls or not having the courage to make calls.

2)Also, it is hypocritical to say it is wrong to "bash" an official and then talk badly about another fellow official out the other side of your mouth.

1) Oh?
http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...32#post=392632
http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...69#post=389569
http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...63#post=389563
http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...99#post=386399
Seems to me that someone posting under your name sureasheck is questioning Welmer's lack of balls.

2) I agree with that statement fully. It reminds me of you. You get all pissy if someone questions anything about Teddy V's officiating qualities, for instance, but you show absolutely no remorse at all when it comes to dumping on Welmer. I don't have a problem with anybody saying that one official is better than the other, but that doesn't mean that the "other" is a bad official and doesn't have the courage to make tough calls. Welmer wouldn't be working a full schedule in multi major conferences if the assignors for those conferences agreed with you. You can question Welmer's ability and that's certainly OK with me, but when you question his courage, you're going too far imo.

It's no different than a fanboy coming here to complain about a bad call. That usually doesn't draw that much of a reaction. But if the fanboy intimates that an official made that bad call because they were favoring one team over another, then they're questioning the integrity of that official. That will get a nasty response here, as well it should.

That's my opinion, Tom, like it or not, on what I think is appropriate. I really don't expect everybody or anybody to agree with me. It's simply my opinion.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) Oh?
http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...32#post=392632
http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...69#post=389569
http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...63#post=389563
http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...99#post=386399
Seems to me that someone posting under your name sureasheck is questioning Welmer's lack of balls.

2) I agree with that statement fully. It reminds me of you. You get all pissy if someone questions anything about Teddy V's officiating qualities, for instance, but you show absolutely no remorse at all when it comes to dumping on Welmer. I don't have a problem with anybody saying that one official is better than the other, but that doesn't mean that the "other" is a bad official and doesn't have the courage to make tough calls. Welmer wouldn't be working a full schedule in multi major conferences if the assignors for those conferences agreed with you. You can question Welmer's ability and that's certainly OK with me, but when you question his courage, you're going too far imo.

It's no different than a fanboy coming here to complain about a bad call. That usually doesn't draw that much of a reaction. But if the fanboy intimates that an official made that bad call because they were favoring one team over another, then they're questioning the integrity of that official. That will get a nasty response here, as well it should.

That's my opinion, Tom, like it or not, on what I think is appropriate. I really don't expect everybody or anybody to agree with me. It's simply my opinion.

1. Something must be wrong with my computer because those are links to posts where I said Welmer only makes obvious calls - on my screen at least. That is just my opinion - and an opinion shared by some of his fellow officials.
2. This statement makes no sense and isn't related to what I said. I'm not the one that said anything about bashing officials so I don't see how you can say I'm being hypocritical. You are making this up to be sensational without even bothering to connect the dots. Can you find a quote where I got "pissy" when someone said something about Teddy V? Teddy V's ability over the years speaks for itself. He isn't a perfect official, but he will go down as one of the great college officials of all time. Until something changes, Welmer's legacy will be 120+ games a year.

I do not think of Welmer as an official who favors one team or another. I also don't think of Welmer as a horrible official - but I sure don't see him as an elite official either.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I do not think of Welmer as an official who favors one team or another. I also don't think of Welmer as a horrible official - but I sure don't see him as an elite official either.

You wanted to know what everyone thought was appropriate when it came to bashing officials. Well, I gave you my opinion of what I thought was appropriate. Your constant Welmer-bashing isn't appropriate in my opinion. It basically isn't any different than the fanboys that come here solely to dump on officials, also in my opinion.

You're certainly entitled to your opinions also.

That's not the answer that you were looking for, was it?

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You wanted to know what everyone thought was appropriate when it came to bashing officials. Well, I gave you my opinion of what I thought was appropriate. Your constant Welmer-bashing isn't appropriate in my opinion. It basically isn't any different than the fanboys that come here solely to dump on officials, also in my opinion.

You're certainly entitled to your opinions also.

That's not the answer that you were looking for, was it?

You are wrong again! I did not bring up the term bashing so I didn't ask what was appropriate when it came to bashing officials. If you think what I say about Welmer is bashing, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I gave my opinion of Welmer; if you consider it bashing then that is your opinion. What you consider bashing is basically me speaking up and giving my opinion when someone speaks of him as if his performance is on par with a Burr, Valentine, Higgins, Libbey and on and on. It is so convenient for you to skip over things like when I said I've heard he is a good guy, but hang on to the negative. I know officials other officials that are jerks and I wouldn't mention their names. If I actually thought of Welmer as badly as you think I do I wouldn't even mention his name.
What I get from you is the opinion that if Burr calls it then it is right or if "Joe D1" calls it then it is the right call. You seem to condemn others if they say "Joe D1" screwed the pooch repeatedly whether it is true or not. My question was asked because of this type of opinion. I did not bring Welmer into this conversation because I wasn't thinking about him when I asked the original question. You are the one hanging on to this, not me. I said he (Welmer) is supposed to be a good guy, I said he makes the super obvious calls (primarily) and I said he - IMO - isn't among the elite. The results seem to be in line with what I'm saying. Maybe you should start to drink some of my Kool Aid!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tomegun

1) You are wrong again!

2) I did not bring up the term bashing so I didn't ask what was appropriate when it came to bashing officials.

3) What I get from you is the opinion that if Burr calls it then it is right or if "Joe D1" calls it then it is the right call.

1) How can I be wrong? I gave you my opinion. How can my opinion be wrong? Is it wrong because you say it's wrong?

2) See post of your's cited above. You didn't ask what was appropriate when it came to bashing officials? Someone must be posting under your name again. If you don't like the answers, don't ask the questions.

3) I don't have a clue where you get that from. I said many times that ANY official is going to blow a call sometimes. It's not about blowing individual calls. What bothers me is the fanboys and supposed officials that question another official's integrity or courage. I don't think that is appropriate when it comes to bashing officials. Iow, I just answered the question that you asked above. Again, if you don't happen to like that answer, too bad.