confused

[Jeremy40]

hi guys

i'm the trail and my partner is the lead, but while he is under the basket he lets some very obvious fouls go when player A is shooting. my partner doesn't make the call so i do. of course, the coach from team B goes crazy and
"how can i make that call from so far away"

it is my understanding that if you see anything illegal from near or far you call it. did i do the right thing?

let me know
thanks

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Jeremy40
hi guys

i'm the trail and my partner is the lead, but while he is under the basket he lets some very obvious fouls go when player A is shooting. my partner doesn't make the call so i do. of course, the coach from team B goes crazy and
"how can i make that call from so far away"

it is my understanding that if you see anything illegal from near or far you call it. did i do the right thing?

let me know
thanks

You better be 150% sure you are calling fouls, not just what you think are fouls. And my question to you, why are you paying attention so close to your partners area? If you can see all those fouls in his area, what is going on in yours?

Peace

[BigDave]

To answer your question, Jeremy, no you didn't do the right thing. Let your pard call in his area. If he blows it, that's his problem.

You will get more flack for getting a call right in his area than you will for missing one in yours.

[BktBallRef]

You and your partner need to be on the same page. If they are truly fouls, why isn't he calling them?

My guess is that you didn't have a pregame.

[paulis]

I, too, would make the call under the "Oh, my God!" principal. In other words, if everyone in the gym saw it but your partner and the collective response would be "Oh, my God!", get the call right. But yes, I would get with my partner a.s.a.p. to make sure you get on the same page.

[RecRef]

Originally posted by Jeremy40
hi guys

it is my understanding that if you see anything illegal from near or far you call it. did i do the right thing?

let me know
thanks

Yes it is and don't let anyone tell you it is not.
--
NF Officials Manual 2001-03, Prerequisites for Good Officiating.
Page 9, General Principles

“19. Cooperation: Each official must give full cooperation to coworkers and to the assistant officials. Neither official is limited to calling fouls or violations in their own area of the court. Each official should call fouls wherever they occur and be prepared to help other officials at all times.”
--

BktBallRef has the right idea on this. You and your partner have to get together and talk before the game about many situations.

Unfortunately this is a profession/semi-profession/calling of egos that can get bruised now and then when you step on someoneÂ’s feet. So be ready for some heat but you must be true to your principles to be true to the game.

[Josh Ovens]

you should talk about that in your pregame, that if something occurs out of someones area, will it be called, and will they SELL the call. my main thing is, if its in his area and close to your primary area and its a obvious foul, call it, then sell it by running in there after a strong whistle and letting everyone know you saw it. but if its really close to him, im not calling it even if i see it. first of all, it makes the crew look stupid. second, if hes not calling his area,and your calling into his, then whos watching yourS??? and last, you shouldnt be looking there if its in front of him. i had soemthign similiar happen to me 2 nights ago, and i responded to the coach,"i wasnt looking down there, ask my partner about it, he has a much better view in front of him then i do."

[Oz Referee]

Originally posted by Josh Ovens
i had soemthign similiar happen to me 2 nights ago, and i responded to the coach,"i wasnt looking down there, ask my partner about it, he has a much better view in front of him then i do."

I absolutely HATE referees that say this to caoches! It a lot of cases it comes across as if you are trying to distance yourself from your partner, and lay the blame squarely on him/her.

A better response is something like: "if it was a foul (violation, whaterver) then we would have called it". This shows a united crew working together.

There is no such thing as YOUR call and THEIR call, everything that happens on the court is OUR responsibility.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Oz Referee
A better response is something like: "if it was a foul (violation, whaterver) then we would have called it". This shows a united crew working together.

This is great! I've always hated having to say "I didn't see it" to a coach/captain.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Oz Referee

I absolutely HATE referees that say this to caoches! It a lot of cases it comes across as if you are trying to distance yourself from your partner, and lay the blame squarely on him/her.

A better response is something like: "if it was a foul (violation, whaterver) then we would have called it". This shows a united crew working together.

There's nothing wrong with telling a coach that he would get a better answer form your partner, if the parnter made the call or no-call. There's nothing wrong with Mark's statement. He didn't say, "Coach, that's not my call," or "Coach, that's not in my area."

You statement doesn't always answer the question. Your answer only works if there wasn't a call.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Oz Referee

I absolutely HATE referees that say this to caoches! It a lot of cases it comes across as if you are trying to distance yourself from your partner, and lay the blame squarely on him/her.

A better response is something like: "if it was a foul (violation, whaterver) then we would have called it". This shows a united crew working together.

There is no such thing as YOUR call and THEIR call, everything that happens on the court is OUR responsibility.

I have to disagree with you. I do not want to be explaining a call I did not see. If I am explaining calls that was not in my area, or I had no clue what my partner called, I feel it is always better to have my partner explain it. I have no problem with this because then the coach can ask the appropriate official, instead of the official that is watching off ball or looking thru players. I tell all my partners in pregame, if a coach has a question about my calls, to ask me when they get a chance. I am a grown up, I can answer for myself. I do not want to explain anything about what you called. I might not explain it properly. And better yet, if I explain his or her call, then the coach will want that all the time. Even when I do not have a clue myself. And especially when you are doing 3 Person mechanics.

There is a such thing as YOUR CALL and MY CALL. If you blew the whistle, it is YOUR CALL. Chances are, you saw what happen, that is why you blew the whistle. But if I am good off-ball official, or I am watching on-ball on a off-ball foul, how the hell am I going to know what was called? Like the old saying, get it straight from the horses mouth, not the horses AZZ!!

Peace

[Dave Brost]

Some good points made about answering for your partner. I have trouble with this, and feel like I am short-changing my partner if I say "it wasn't my call", but at the same time do not want to be answering for something I might not have all the right facts to answer.
As for making a call in your partners area, it was not stated clearly what the situation was, but I always discuss in our pre-game that if the trail is in good position to see a play that is in the leads area, go ahead and make the call. The lead may be screened from a reach-in the happens in the paint. If I am the trail and have dropped down to a good position, I would make the call if I had one.
Make it clear though, that I am not going to make calls in my partners area, when I have my own area to cover. In the situation above, this is a grey area where we might both be observing. The key is that I was in good position to see it. A coach will not argue the fact of position if your are there. He still might not like the call though.

[williebfree]

As you all know, there are "seams" (transition areas) in which double coverage can occur. As mentioned earlier, this is something that should be covered in the pre-game. As well as, what are you going to do with double whistles.

In all cases, you and your partner have to communicate. This is no place for "ego trips". Your goal should be to get it right.

Having said that, I agree with Rut about calling your area. If you are "seeing" all these fouls underneath, I suspect you are missing off-ball action.

In regards to coaches questioning calls, when it happens, be supportive of your partner. Make affirmative statements such as, "Coach, s/he was right there. I am sure s/he got it right."

[Dave Brost]

Willie-
You have made some good points. My point about making a call in my partners area is that it might happen once in a while, but I would not expect that to happen very often. If it does, we would have a talk at half-time to clear this up. We usually discuss calls like this anyway, just to clarify what was called, and what I saw in his area.

[JRutledge]

I also wanted to add that I am against "hanging your partner out to dry." When you do answer questions from a coach, you must be supportive and tell the coach that they "got it right" when you can. All I am purposing, is that you do not get in the habit of answering things you did not see. Tell the coach in a proper way that "my partner had a much better look than you or I" and move on. I always tell my partners to have a coach ask me about what I did, because I realize that they do not have a clue what I might have called. I work several games with the same partners, but when I do work with guys I am unfamiliar with, I tell them they do not have to explain for my boneheaded decisions. I can answer for myself and encourage them to tell coaches that. And if I call something that is not clear, I will explain it if I can.

OZ Referee, I agree that you should not just pass the buck if you will. You must be firm about sticking together, but you should not have to answer for things you do not understand or did not see. And if you do as much 3 Person games as I do, you understand that if you are looking off-ball like you are suppose too, you will not see many on-ball fouls and off-ball fouls if have the ball in your area. You should not just say "that was not my area," but you should be able to say, "coach, I have not clue what he saw but he sure did have a better look than I did. I am sure he/she will explain it when they get the chance." Then they will not be coming to you the whole game about things you did not see or did not realize what exactly was called.

And I must clarify, I am talking about 3 Person mostly. In 2 Person, you see much more of what is being called by your partner. And I am also talking about varsity and up level games. Coaches are "usually" much better understanding and reasonable the higher you move up the ladder. And because you "usually" are working with more seasoned officials, you can get away with this and have no problem. But when you do those JV and Junior High Games, you might have to stand up more for your partner and just tell him or her, "that was a good call." These coaches do not understand that there is a way to get the information they need without being a azzhole about it. So they tend to fly off the handle more and do not understand that the Trail probably did not see the call the Lead made under the basket.

Hope that clarifies.

Peace