Do you want another "Whatta ya got"?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Don't blame me, I'm only the messenger!

Repeat after me....

"it's not all about me."

Again......

"It's not all about me."

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Repeat after me....

"it's not all about me."

Again......

"It's not all about me."

Good point. In fact I always say that.

[Old School]

Oh, we got another good one here. Because of distance, I will probably have to rule offensive. However, form the video, I can not tell viewing it two times if the player was not airborne before the defender is set. Another point is the offense doesn't get an advantage here, imo, because the defense is there in front of him all the way up the court. You don't reward bad decision from the players. IOW, he could have just stopped and shot a jump shot. In the other video, the defensive player was not there and at the last second, ran underneath the shooter to try and draw the charge. This one is clear and easier to call because of distance. Advantage defense.

[RushmoreRef]

Originally Posted by Old School

Oh, we got another good one here. Because of distance, I will probably have to rule offensive. However, form the video, I can not tell viewing it two times if the player was not airborne before the defender is set. Another point is the offense doesn't get an advantage here, imo, because the defense is there in front of him all the way up the court. You don't reward bad decision from the players. IOW, he could have just stopped and shot a jump shot. In the other video, the defensive player was not there and at the last second, ran underneath the shooter to try and draw the charge. This one is clear and easier to call because of distance. Advantage defense.

To me this is more of a chance that I would call "block" on this one than the previous one....Maybe because it's in a fast-break situation or because it seems to me (without the benefit of slow-mo) that the defense sticks out his chest toward the defender and the more I watch it, appear to flop early....I know either of those don't matter, but both tend to lean me toward blocks at game speed.

Don't "fly-off-the-handle" if you don't agree, because I still think it is a "charge", it just doesn't jump out at me like the first video.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by RushmoreRef

To me this is more of a chance that I would call "block" on this one than the previous one....Maybe because it's in a fast-break situation or because it seems to me (without the benefit of slow-mo) that the defense sticks out his chest toward the defender and the more I watch it, appear to flop early....I know either of those don't matter, but both tend to lean me toward blocks at game speed.

Don't "fly-off-the-handle" if you don't agree, because I still think it is a "charge", it just doesn't jump out at me like the first video.

My first thought was block as well, had to look at it a couple of times to determine if B1 actually had LGP.

[RushmoreRef]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

My first thought was block as well, had to look at it a couple of times to determine if B1 actually had LGP.

I'm relieved that I'm not the only one....I'll make another point on this play as well....I think if the L had the same poisition of the camera it would have been a more difficult call....as you can see on the film the C is coming down the court on the left so the L is looking right at the back of B1 on the play which I think made it look more like a "charge" than it does in this clip...."sometimes it's better to be lucky, than good I guess"....

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by RushmoreRef

..I think if the L had the same poisition of the camera it would have been a more difficult call....as you can see on the film the C is coming down the court on the left so the L is looking right at the back of B1 on the play which I think made it look more like a "charge" than it does in this clip...."sometimes it's better to be lucky, than good I guess"....

This is a great point, although I disagree with the "lucky" part. He's good, because he got a better angle to see the play, and get the right call. This aspect would make this a great training video clip.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by RushmoreRef

To me this is more of a chance that I would call "block" on this one than the previous one....Maybe because it's in a fast-break situation or because it seems to me (without the benefit of slow-mo) that the defense sticks out his chest toward the defender and the more I watch it, appear to flop early....I know either of those don't matter, but both tend to lean me toward blocks at game speed.

That's why I said this is another close one. However, the distance, though I know Mark it's not relevent to the rule, but the time and distance factor between the players is what helped me to make this call, and get the play right.

Even if the player would have been airborne, he does not get to come down where he would have landed had the defender obtained LGP. Principles of vertically says you can go up and come back down in your space, but not 3 feet past where you started your jump or shot. The same rule would apply if you had a 3-point shooter get taken out by the defense before returning to the floor.

Time and distance for my sake in getting this call right is very beneficial. Use it to your advantage if it helps. Don't believe the garbage that Mark and the others will try and tell you (kool-aid) on time and distance. You remove that, like what we have in the other tread, and now I'm more so guessing at what I thought just happened. If I'm not 100% for sure, then just like baseball, tie goes to the runner, and the runner in baseball is the offense, which means BLOCK!!!! Here, charged, 100% sure.

[BEAREF]

Originally Posted by Old School

...... If I'm not 100% for sure, then just like baseball, tie goes to the runner, and the runner in baseball is the offense, which means BLOCK!!!! Here, charged, 100% sure.

There are no ties in baseball...either the runner beats the throw or he doesn't. Obviously you don't own or haven't read a baseball rules book either.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

Don't believe the garbage that Mark and the others will try and tell you (kool-aid) on time and distance.

No, don't believe Mark and the others. Read the rule for yourself, where it specifically says "Time and distance are not a factor...." Try basing it on time and distance, and you're going to call too many blocks.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Old School

Principles of vertically says you can go up and come back down in your space, but not 3 feet past where you started your jump or shot.

Can you quote me the rule that says this?

Originally Posted by Old School

If I'm not 100% for sure, then just like baseball, tie goes to the runner, and the runner in baseball is the offense, which means BLOCK!!!!

So, you're saying the tie goes to the offense, but it's still a charge? And what rule, basketball or otherwise, do you use to back this assertion?

Quit drinking the Kool-Aid, Old School. These comments are absolutely incorrect, by rule. By using what you think is correct, then you are making it about Old School, not about the players. Remember, it's not about you, it's about the game...it's not about you, it's about the game...

[Old School]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Can you quote me the rule that says this?

In NCAA men's, once the ball leaves the shooters hand, and contact occurs at the basket, it's not an offensive foul, it's a common foul. In NFHS, it will be a CHARGE, no basket. So let's say in the video above. Let's say the shooter release the ball, but the defender still obtained LGP. Shooter momentum crashes into defender in LGP status, no basket, offensive foul or CHARGE!

So, you're saying the tie goes to the offense, but it's still a charge? And what rule, basketball or otherwise, do you use to back this assertion?

You lost me on that one. If I got a tie, in other words I'm not sure I got offense or defense, and I got a major collision like what we discuss in the other tread. I got a block, defense everytime. I'm not taking the ball from the offense unless I'm sure. You see, my mind is clear. I don't drink the kool-aid.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Old School

Oh, we got another good one here. Because of distance, I will probably have to rule offensive. However, form the video, I can not tell viewing it two times if the player was not airborne before the defender is set. Another point is the offense doesn't get an advantage here, imo, because the defense is there in front of him all the way up the court. You don't reward bad decision from the players. IOW, he could have just stopped and shot a jump shot. In the other video, the defensive player was not there and at the last second, ran underneath the shooter to try and draw the charge. This one is clear and easier to call because of distance. Advantage defense.

Old School:

Repeat after me:

1) There is no such thing as an offensive foul in NFHS and NCAA rules.

2) Time and distance does not apply to a defender obtaining/establishing a legal guarding position against an offensive player in control of the ball and the offensive player is not airborne at the time the defender obtains/establishes his legal guarding position.

In fact I want you to write it 500 times and have it on my desk by tomorrow morning.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. Everybody read OS's last paragraph, now he is changing his decision on why he would have called a block in the first thread.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Old School:

Repeat after me:

1) There is no such thing as an offensive foul in NFHS and NCAA rules.

2) Time and distance does not apply to a defender obtaining/establishing a legal guarding position against an offensive player in control of the ball and the offensive player is not airborne at the time the defender obtains/establishes his legal guarding position.

In fact I want you to write it 500 times and have it on my desk by tomorrow morning.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. Everybody read OS's last paragraph, now he is changing his decision on why he would have called a block in the first thread.

MTD, repeat after me. There ain't no such thing as a Superman, which means there is no such thing as a super refereee. If you don't like me saying offensive foul. Then maybe you need to go back to hibernation, or whatever state you where in before I woke you up.

Peace....

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Old School

MTD, repeat after me. There ain't no such thing as a Superman, which means there is no such thing as a super refereee. If you don't like me saying offensive foul. Then maybe you need to go back to hibernation, or whatever state you where in before I woke you up.

Peace....

Old School:

Yes I do take offense when you do not use correct terminology. When one does not use the correct language of his profession or in our case avocation, it causes the people who read his posts to think one of two things: 1) He does not pay attention to detail; or 2) He does not know his subject matter. In your case it is almost 100% the latter.

MTD, Sr.