Originally Posted by Old School

1) JR, I want you to think about this real good before you respond again. If I didn't have a rulebook, how would I know about the term Habitual Motion? Gotcha!!!!

2) Seriously, I got another philosophy on this call for all of you. At a recent camp, I was told that as the Lead, you don't watch the feet. As the Lead, you have from the waste up. Now, if you are the Lead making this call, and you are basing your decision on the fact that the defender got his feet down and set before the offensive players feet left the floor, you are watching the wrong thing. Plus, in order to make that determination at that precise time at real time speed is at best a guess. Judging that you are making that decision from the players feet. Now if you are watching the play from the waste up and judging this, you will see that the offensive player has a open path to the bucket, at the last minute a defender moves in. From real time speed, you can't undercut the player once he's started his shooting motion. So I'm saying that if the call comes from the Lead who watching from the waste up, the only possible call you can have is a defensive block, imho. Now we go back and review the film, the film shows the defender did get there in time and it was in fact PC. In real time, you can't make that call from the Lead and the reason is you don't have enough information, you are guessing at PC.

Let's breifly talk a minute about the contact to the torso. There was no contact to the torso. The player got there too late. The contact on the play was from the undercut and the offensive player fell down from this. If I'm watching waste up, there was no contact to the chest. That's what I need to see to rule PC from the L. Easy call, block, 2 shots, game over.

3) The National Basketball Association you moron!!!

Originally Posted by Old School

Don't feel sorry for me, it's just my opinion. I totally understand the way NFHS wants this call. I just disagree with this particular play being a charge and I know I'm not the only referee that feels this way. I'm just the only referee that's got enough balls to stand my ground on this forum.

Originally Posted by Old School

JR, I want you to think about this real good before you respond again. If I didn't have a rulebook, how would I know about the term Habitual Motion? Gotcha!!!! Ahhh..., one more thing, H/M is irrelevent to any play? Damn man, you must have drunk more of that Kool-Aid than I originally thought.

Seriously, I got another philosophy on this call for all of you. At a recent camp, I was told that as the Lead, you don't watch the feet. As the Lead, you have from the waste up. Now, if you are the Lead making this call, and you are basing your decision on the fact that the defender got his feet down and set before the offensive players feet left the floor, you are watching the wrong thing. Plus, in order to make that determination at that precise time at real time speed is at best a guess. Judging that you are making that decision from the players feet. Now if you are watching the play from the waste up and judging this, you will see that the offensive player has a open path to the bucket, at the last minute a defender moves in. From real time speed, you can't undercut the player once he's started his shooting motion. So I'm saying that if the call comes from the Lead who watching from the waste up, the only possible call you can have is a defensive block, imho. Now we go back and review the film, the film shows the defender did get there in time and it was in fact PC. In real time, you can't make that call from the Lead and the reason is you don't have enough information, you are guessing at PC.

Let's breifly talk a minute about the contact to the torso. There was no contact to the torso. The player got there too late. The contact on the play was from the undercut and the offensive player fell down from this. If I'm watching waste up, there was no contact to the chest. That's what I need to see to rule PC from the L. Easy call, block, 2 shots, game over.

The National Basketball Association you moron!!! To sum up, you need to really lay off that kool-aid.

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Old School:

If you are not officiating the defense, you are most definitely not watching the correct thing.

MTD, Sr.

Originally Posted by BLydic

And what does your pregame include regarding a drive to the basket when there's a crash with a secondary defender? IMO, Nevada got it correct in post #54.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) Great. Now explain to us exactly what the "habitual motion" rule says and means. Then...cite it from the NFHS rule book <i>verbatim</i>. That means word-for-word. You'll find it on p.39. What does case book play 6.7COMMENT say about it? That's on p.50 of the case book. Please cite that word-for-word also. If you don't cite both......GOTCHA!!!!

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

To be honest, the whole complexity of a secondary, or even a third defender, etc. never came in the discussions. Plain and simple, C or T has the drive to the bucket and first crack at any collision/contact. The C or T absolutely may decide that they have nothing, but if the L sees something that warrants a whistle, then by all means, come in and get it. That's the luxury of the 3 person.

Again, I am not questioning RD making this call.

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

To be honest, the whole complexity of a secondary, or even a third defender, etc. never came in the discussions. Plain and simple, C or T has the drive to the bucket and first crack at any collision/contact.

Originally Posted by Old School

Now why would I even attempt to explain anything to you. You already know it all, and I also know that you don't like it when I use your own tactics on you. Bully's don't like to be bully back. Here's the deal, I know what it means and I'm not trying to prove anything to anybody. I just state my opinion and my position and that's that. It's not changing JR. Now if you want to come behind that with your throw the ref under the bus tactic's, that's all on you.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not true....the T/C have primary coverage all the way in for players involved in the play all the way in. When the defender comes from somewhere else, the official covering that area has primary coverage. The T/C will NOT have a good look at a defender coming into the picture at the last second.

Originally Posted by Vinski

Alright, keeping in mind that I am a rookie, I have a question about the popular opinion of the 2nd video. This appears to be a charge to me, but most think this is a no-call. I’m sure we all agree that LGP is initialized. If this is not a charge, when did the defender loose LPG before the contact? Please don’t yell at me, just a poor innocent rookie trying to learn.

Originally Posted by RushmoreRef

Is it the one dribbling along the sideline..it that's the one then it looks to me like a flop (contact didn't cause the defensive player to fall over). IMO...unless there is a video that I missed.

Originally Posted by Vinski

Ahhh... So you are saying that there really wasn't any contact to speak off. If that's the case then I'm on board. However, kinda looks like a bit more contact than that from the camera angle. That ref would have had the best view.