[QUOTE]Originally posted by JeffRef

Quote:

If you were put in this situation again, would you handle it differently? Sounds to me like the coach wanted to be acknowledged. Could his behaviour (sorry, I'm Canadian!) and the subsequent "T" have been avoided if his original comment was acknowledged? Something like..."I had a great look at the play and the foul is the correct call". He still may think it was a "bad" call, but he needs to "respect" your decision.

First of all, don't apologize for being Canadian. No one's perfect. ;)

Second, I did acknowledge him. I told him what I saw, even before I reported the foul. I didn't have a conversation with him, but I only do that when a coach has a legitimate question.

Last, no, I wouldn't do it differently. 7 & 8 grade girls' games are a big enough headache without listening to his crap. And if I hadn't T'd him, I'm pretty sure that he would've kept it up all night. Not going to have that, no way.

Funny thing was, before the T, he was walking around, carping at me and my partner, and his girls scored 4 points -- in about 10 minutes of the first half. After the T, he sat down, coached his girls, and they scored 15 points. Amazing!!

Chuck

My first year I was observing a game that the teacher of our class was reffing. It was Varsity Boys with a very good team against a, well, not quite so good, shall we say. The NQSG coach was just working the ref over from the very beginning -- yelling about every call, throwing his arms around and so on. Finally half way into the second quarter, my teacher T's him. At that point NQSG team was 30 points behind, with 10 fouls. After the T, they didn't foul again the rest of the half and were up to only 10 behind at half time. They didn't win, but played a creditable game, and left feeling very happy with themselves. Did the coach learn his lesson? NO, not at all, but my teacher had done him a big favor that one night don't you think?

I got into this kind of late, but I have some issues with the discussion.

Sorry this is so long.

First, I don't think that there should be any issue with the T situation that Chuck gave. He warned the coach properly and gave the coach a way out. Coach didn't want it, Chuck responded properly.

Juulie--if a coach is on the floor and is angry with you or says anything to you--it is automatic. I appreciate that you are trying to be diplomatic and helpful, but the best help we give, IMO, is punishing the offenders. This coach clearly was out of line. Three steps on the court and yelling about fouls? Those are the easiest ones to me. I believe (firmly) that the others who have said not to call a T in this instance are wrong. IMO, these are the ones you have to call.

Rockyroad wrote about T's making the game better. I believe that this is a case where a T would have helped. The coach would have to settle down or he would not have coached anymore that game.

Jeffref wrote about the two catagories for T's. Under the "automatic" catagory he wrote "disrespecting the crew." How is standing on the court and yelling about calls (or lack thereof) not disrespecting your crew's ability? He is saying (to the whole gym, mind you) that you and your partner do not know what a foul is or that you don't have the guts to call it. Once again, this is an automatic T.

Generally as HS officials, I believe that we take way too much crap from coaches. I have never really understood why. The coaches are expected to know the rules of decorum for their conduct and I expect them to abide by those rules. If they don't, there will be a consequence.

The other part of this situation is, how are you percieved as an official based on your actions? I can tell you that if I were evaluating the game, your strength as an official would be in question. Do you have the courage to do what is right? Can you make a tough call, especially if you know it will be unpopular? Can you handle the heat associated with a tough call? These things are what gets used as criteria for moving people up the officiating ladder.

This is in no way a slam on anyone. I am trying to point out that too often we look for easy ways out instead of bucking up and doing what we should.

Without addressing Juulie's case specifically, this is absolutely true. Officials take much more abuse, derision, argumentation, venom, and just plain crap from coaches than anyone should take. Part of the problem is that we don't want to be seen as thin-skinned b/c that will slow our climb up the ranks. Also, I think there's a recognition that the T is the second most serious penalty we can give to an individual, and we don't want to be seen as heavy-handed.

I'll share a story, for what it's worth. I went to camp a couple summers ago. It was for 3-person mechanics. I was trail on bench side. As clock winds down in the 2nd half, A1 makes a quick move from the top of the FT circle toward the basket. He beats his man badly and B1 grabs A1's jersey and pulls him backwards to prevent the layup. My partner (the C) puts up a fist, and I put up an intentional.

B's coach goes nuts, comes 2 steps onto the floor, yelling. I signal him to go back to the bench (which he does, with some help from an assistant) and I report the foul.

After the game, one of the observers comes over to me and puts an arm around my shoulder. He says very calmly, "Chuck, you're a nice guy. But you can't always be the nice guy. If you're going to be a good basketball official, you can not let people s**t on you." He patted me on the back and walked away.

A simple truth, but for some reason, we don't remember it on the court. We're not there as a release valve for the coach's frustration. We're not worthy of less respect simply b/c we wear stripes.

Just my 2 cents, but unless you're Billy Crystal in Forget Paris, you will probably never have to feel sorry about giving a T.

Chuck

Chuck --

I agree with you in principle, but I've been told precisely the opposite by a number of people. So I'm trying out different things to get to the point of "what works for me." How do I decide when a T will make the game better and when it won't? I thought in this case it wouldn't and I didn't give it, and the rest of the game went fine. The loud coach's team was just barely ahead when this incident happened, after the incident, they settled down and re-extended their lead and won by a comfortable 6 points. I'm not saying I'm off the hook because they won, but rather that not giving the T got the same results that in otehr situations a T would have gotten.

Personally, I would be a lot quicker to the T, except for the advice and example of a number of people in our association who have found other mechanisms to keeep the coach "on-task".

Seems to me that's exactly what you should do. You call the game the way your assignors want you to, and the way that will make the game work the best.

Before last season, I was told by my assignor that I needed to be tougher on bench decorum. So I have been. (Hence, the short leash in my 7 & 8 grade girls' game.)

I've been officiating for almost 10 years now, and to be honest, I still have a hard time knowing ahead of time if the T will make things better or worse. After giving the T, I can say, "Wow, that really settled things down". But as it's happening, I don't really know. That comes naturally to some people, I guess. It's just not one of my talents.

Chuck

Juulie--

"What works for me" is different for everyone. I can do things that many others cannot and there are lots of techniques that other officials use effectively that have been disasters for me. What works is learned by trail and error. Try a couple of things with coaches who have different personalities and see what happens.

I absolutely believe that "when in Rome..." If the people who are in charge want you to look for other ways out of situations, then by all means look for alternative solutions, but don't let them abuse you.

Juulie - as you well know because we have worked together, I don't get much flak from coaches, but when I do, I am not adverse to giving the T if I feel it is warranted. Many times on this board I have quoted Ed Hightower who said that the purpose of a technical foul is to stop bad behavior, and if you can stop the bad behavior without having to issue the technical, you are just that much ahead.

Apparently, I have come a long way since the days when my association permanently named their annual "Mr. T" award after me. ;)