Situation: 8th grade girls, close game, but white led the whole time (and won, by the way). Blue was coming back in the last 5 min of the game, and got as close as two, I think, so of course the tension was glutinous. White was unhappy that we had called a lot more fouls on them, but that's the way they were playing. Both my partner and me were calling it pretty tight, and neither of us had any questions about how the other was working. I missed a couple, he missed a couple, but we were getting it pretty right. With about 3 minutes to go, white is inbounding under blue's basket, blue is pressing. White dribbles to one side heading to get past a screen, slides a little and falls. I wasn't watching closely, but my partner was right there and had a great angle. White lost the ball, the screener fell over the ex-dribbler, blue grabs the ball and heads up court. Another white player comes down and nails blue dribbler - tweet - double bonus, two shots for blue. White coach is literally incoherent with rage, but I walk over, and briefly talk him down, let the assistant coach take over, and feel very proud of myself for not T'ing. Site supervisor reams me after the game for not tossing white coach. Blue parents thought I was playing favorites, I guess.

Okay, if I ask you folks whether I was right or not, you'll say you had to see it yourself, and so on. So I'm not asking. But for my edification and future professionalism, what tells you it's time for a T, and what do you handle in other ways? i like the philosophy of giving T's when they make a better game, but how do I know when that is?

When you've done everything that you can to avoid the T, when the coach has ignored every opportunity that you've given him, and when you personally, have had enough, then, and only then, WHACK! him.

Sounds like you handled it fine to me.

As long as the coach is coaching I don't have a problem. My line is when the coach gets unsportsmanlike (esp. language) or personal (i.e. comments directed at me personally or questioning my integrety).

You are correct that a good "T" makes the game better. I will let the coach dissagree with a call as long as he/she is staying "in the game". Sounds to me like this was the case in your sitch and you handled it without having to "T".

Mike

For me, a coach qualifies for a T if he/she:
1) gets personal (usually using the "you" word)
2) uses profanity
3) shows me up
I also like to use this if it would appear to make the game better. But also if there is really nothing else I can do. If I or my partner really kick one and a coach goes primal, whacking him/her might not make the game any better. I will give the coach some run here but eventually might have to issue the T when there is nothing else I can do. There is a time to employ poor hearing and move the game on.

Jewel,
I have still not "T'd" a coach, so my lines may be distorted.
My line is when a coach detracts from a certain dignity of the game.
mick

Here's a couple of thoughts...
1) What does "incoherent with rage mean"? If this means throwing clip boards down, jumping up and down, screaming and yelling, and coming towards me out of the box, It would be a T. If he were just tight fisted and his face red like he held his breath for an hour, then no T is justified.

2) Dont let a coach getting mad let you change the rule. Only the head coach is allowed to stand, if you let the "assistant coach take over", and let him stand you have defeated the rule, the other team may see this or someone else and it would not look good.

sorry - post gets a little long and rambling
 

Juulie - as you know, you and I did the same tournament this weekend, although we didn't cross paths (maybe because Josh and I had all boys games). On Saturday, I had a coach who was so far out of the coaching box, literally he was across the mid-court line. Although we weren't really enforcing that rule this weekend, I did tell him to stay relatively in front of his bench. I warned him again a few minutes later. Just a few minutes after that, Josh gave him a third warning. A moment later, I heard Josh blow his whistle for the T. I thought it was because the coach didn't move back after that third warning, but I found out at halftime I was wrong. What the coach did, was "flip Josh off"!!!

When Josh told me that, I asked him why he didn't toss the guy. He grinned and said, "Two reasons. First, he's doing such a lousy coaching job he's hurting his team more by staying in - and second, I'd rather T him up again later. You know he'll do something stupid to get one, and that way the other team gets more free throws." I told him he absolutely, positively should have tossed the guy for that.

I think he was only half-kidding. BTW - I informed the coach after the T that he was seat-belted and guess what - he did get another T later from me for refusing to stay on the bench. Boy - that was fun.

Actually, I was impressed with the restraint my partner used during some of the games with players who used some mild profanity. Twice, players were mad at themselves and muttered something that, even though it was directed only at themselves, came out pretty loud. In both cases, Josh waited for a quarter break and then mentioned it to the coaches. He said he'd appreciated it if the coach would talk to the player to make sure it didn't happen again. I thought that was good game management.

Also BTW - who talked to you about what happened with that coach? We did five games and no one said anything to us, even though we did have a couple of problems with coaches.

We did have a kind of funny situation in our last game on Sunday. Team A was up 6 with less than two minutes to go. Coach B yelled for his team to foul and B1 ran up to A1 and just pushed him with one hand in the small of the back. I called the intentional and A1 made both free throws. A2 went to inbound and B2 reached over the line and slapped the ball. I called the technical, and A1 shot the free throws and made both. A2 went to inbound to A1 and as soon as he did, B3 wrapped both arms around A1. Another intentional and again, A1 made both free throws. Almost no time off the clock and team A adds 6 quick points and then gets the ball back and finally wins by 15. Just a strange ending to what actually had been a pretty close game.

The coach had been basically quiet the whole game, and had protested a couple calls, but nothing beyond a sort of firm question. This was the only real outburst, so I guess I wasn't at MY threshhold yet. I did let the assistant coach stand, but it was only briefly while he grabbed the coach's arm, and the "statician" (coach's wife as it turns out) grabbed the other arm, and they sat him down. They all agreed that it was a bad call (although it wasn't) but they hadn't lost their tempers and so were using diplomacy to avoid a bigger problem. It wasn't loud enough to attract the attention of my partner who was lining up the girls for the free throw. He was out on the floor a step or three, but didn't keep walking as he yelled. The funny part was that the site supervisor who came and talked to me afterwards had been coaching the day before and had spent the whole game he had with me on the floor. WHen he told me that the coach on the floor was an automatic T, I said, "You didn't correct me yesterday when I didn't call it on you!"

Since the coach didn't have a lot more to say, I felt I had handled it pretty well, in spite of the criticism of the site supervisor.

Thinking back over the whole thing, he didn't impugn my veracity, my integrity or my heredity. He just kept yelling over and over, "Why is that not a foul? How can that not be a foul?" After hearing what y'all say, I still think it just wasn't a technical. So thanks folks -- another example where the board is helpful and up-building.

Hey, if that's all he said then you done good by calming
him down & not T'ing him up. Real good.

In some case, depending on how he knew you, that may still not be grounds to stick him. i mean, he could be right

It's late and I'm just yankin' your chain! :D

Juulie - in that same tournament, I had a coach keep yelling, "What do we have to do to get a foul call?" At first, I just ignored him. Then, after about the 50th time he yelled it, I told him that if he kept it up he'd find out real quick.

As you might have guessed, he shut up the rest of the game.

Man, I love this job. ;)

Juulie - a good rule of thumb on calling a T on the coach is to ask yourself "Will it make the game better"...obviously there are certain situations where the T is pretty automatic, but in you case, you evaluated the situation and handled it appropriately...don't let the ravings of some site manager cause you to second-guess yourself...remember that with coaches, you can 1)Ignore them if you think it will make things better; 2)Talk to them if you think it will make things better; or 3)T them if you think it will make things better...you chose option #2 and it worked...nice job!

I put coach T's in 2 categories. The first category includes the easy ones to call (disrespect to the crew, ignoring a warning, or a calculated response or outburst). The other category is more difficult. This category includes emotional responses and outbursts. When emotions are tense I'll be a little more understanding and more inclined to talk rather than "T". I might say something like "I understand you're upset with the call. That was a tough play that could have gone either way. Let's move forward and get back to playing ball".

From the information provided, I say you resolved the problem appropriately.

Jeff.

I gave a T last night to a coach for much less than what Juulie put up with. Girls' 7 & 8 grade game. My T fell into both of Jeff's categories

I called a foul on his player and he immediately said, "Looked like a clean block, ref," which I ignored. Then he said it again. So I answered, "Slapped her across the wrist, Coach." I reported the foul and went to administer the free throws. He is still talking to me about the clean block. So before I administer the free throw, I said to him (very calmly, too), "Coach, that's all I want to hear about the call. Let it go."

In my view, that was his warning and "Let's move forward" at the same time. So I bounce the ball to the free thrower and while the ball's in the air, "Terrible call".

Tweet.

Yeah, it was a short leash, but it seemed clear to me that if I didn't stop it, it would continue for the whole game, and I wasn't about to have that. He wanted to talk to me about it at halftime, but other than that, he didn't say anything else to the officials for the rest of the game.

Chuck

If you were put in this situation again, would you handle it differently?

Sounds to me like the coach wanted to be acknowledged. Could his behaviour (sorry, I'm Canadian!) and the subsequent "T" have been avoided if his original comment was acknowledged? Something like..."I had a great look at the play and the foul is the correct call". He still may think it was a "bad" call, but he needs to "respect" your decision.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JeffRef

Quote:

If you were put in this situation again, would you handle it differently? Sounds to me like the coach wanted to be acknowledged. Could his behaviour (sorry, I'm Canadian!) and the subsequent "T" have been avoided if his original comment was acknowledged? Something like..."I had a great look at the play and the foul is the correct call". He still may think it was a "bad" call, but he needs to "respect" your decision.

First of all, don't apologize for being Canadian. No one's perfect. ;)

Second, I did acknowledge him. I told him what I saw, even before I reported the foul. I didn't have a conversation with him, but I only do that when a coach has a legitimate question.

Last, no, I wouldn't do it differently. 7 & 8 grade girls' games are a big enough headache without listening to his crap. And if I hadn't T'd him, I'm pretty sure that he would've kept it up all night. Not going to have that, no way.

Funny thing was, before the T, he was walking around, carping at me and my partner, and his girls scored 4 points -- in about 10 minutes of the first half. After the T, he sat down, coached his girls, and they scored 15 points. Amazing!!

Chuck

My first year I was observing a game that the teacher of our class was reffing. It was Varsity Boys with a very good team against a, well, not quite so good, shall we say. The NQSG coach was just working the ref over from the very beginning -- yelling about every call, throwing his arms around and so on. Finally half way into the second quarter, my teacher T's him. At that point NQSG team was 30 points behind, with 10 fouls. After the T, they didn't foul again the rest of the half and were up to only 10 behind at half time. They didn't win, but played a creditable game, and left feeling very happy with themselves. Did the coach learn his lesson? NO, not at all, but my teacher had done him a big favor that one night don't you think?

I got into this kind of late, but I have some issues with the discussion.

Sorry this is so long.

First, I don't think that there should be any issue with the T situation that Chuck gave. He warned the coach properly and gave the coach a way out. Coach didn't want it, Chuck responded properly.

Juulie--if a coach is on the floor and is angry with you or says anything to you--it is automatic. I appreciate that you are trying to be diplomatic and helpful, but the best help we give, IMO, is punishing the offenders. This coach clearly was out of line. Three steps on the court and yelling about fouls? Those are the easiest ones to me. I believe (firmly) that the others who have said not to call a T in this instance are wrong. IMO, these are the ones you have to call.

Rockyroad wrote about T's making the game better. I believe that this is a case where a T would have helped. The coach would have to settle down or he would not have coached anymore that game.

Jeffref wrote about the two catagories for T's. Under the "automatic" catagory he wrote "disrespecting the crew." How is standing on the court and yelling about calls (or lack thereof) not disrespecting your crew's ability? He is saying (to the whole gym, mind you) that you and your partner do not know what a foul is or that you don't have the guts to call it. Once again, this is an automatic T.

Generally as HS officials, I believe that we take way too much crap from coaches. I have never really understood why. The coaches are expected to know the rules of decorum for their conduct and I expect them to abide by those rules. If they don't, there will be a consequence.

The other part of this situation is, how are you percieved as an official based on your actions? I can tell you that if I were evaluating the game, your strength as an official would be in question. Do you have the courage to do what is right? Can you make a tough call, especially if you know it will be unpopular? Can you handle the heat associated with a tough call? These things are what gets used as criteria for moving people up the officiating ladder.

This is in no way a slam on anyone. I am trying to point out that too often we look for easy ways out instead of bucking up and doing what we should.

Without addressing Juulie's case specifically, this is absolutely true. Officials take much more abuse, derision, argumentation, venom, and just plain crap from coaches than anyone should take. Part of the problem is that we don't want to be seen as thin-skinned b/c that will slow our climb up the ranks. Also, I think there's a recognition that the T is the second most serious penalty we can give to an individual, and we don't want to be seen as heavy-handed.

I'll share a story, for what it's worth. I went to camp a couple summers ago. It was for 3-person mechanics. I was trail on bench side. As clock winds down in the 2nd half, A1 makes a quick move from the top of the FT circle toward the basket. He beats his man badly and B1 grabs A1's jersey and pulls him backwards to prevent the layup. My partner (the C) puts up a fist, and I put up an intentional.

B's coach goes nuts, comes 2 steps onto the floor, yelling. I signal him to go back to the bench (which he does, with some help from an assistant) and I report the foul.

After the game, one of the observers comes over to me and puts an arm around my shoulder. He says very calmly, "Chuck, you're a nice guy. But you can't always be the nice guy. If you're going to be a good basketball official, you can not let people s**t on you." He patted me on the back and walked away.

A simple truth, but for some reason, we don't remember it on the court. We're not there as a release valve for the coach's frustration. We're not worthy of less respect simply b/c we wear stripes.

Just my 2 cents, but unless you're Billy Crystal in Forget Paris, you will probably never have to feel sorry about giving a T.

Chuck

Chuck --

I agree with you in principle, but I've been told precisely the opposite by a number of people. So I'm trying out different things to get to the point of "what works for me." How do I decide when a T will make the game better and when it won't? I thought in this case it wouldn't and I didn't give it, and the rest of the game went fine. The loud coach's team was just barely ahead when this incident happened, after the incident, they settled down and re-extended their lead and won by a comfortable 6 points. I'm not saying I'm off the hook because they won, but rather that not giving the T got the same results that in otehr situations a T would have gotten.

Personally, I would be a lot quicker to the T, except for the advice and example of a number of people in our association who have found other mechanisms to keeep the coach "on-task".

Seems to me that's exactly what you should do. You call the game the way your assignors want you to, and the way that will make the game work the best.

Before last season, I was told by my assignor that I needed to be tougher on bench decorum. So I have been. (Hence, the short leash in my 7 & 8 grade girls' game.)

I've been officiating for almost 10 years now, and to be honest, I still have a hard time knowing ahead of time if the T will make things better or worse. After giving the T, I can say, "Wow, that really settled things down". But as it's happening, I don't really know. That comes naturally to some people, I guess. It's just not one of my talents.

Chuck

Juulie--

"What works for me" is different for everyone. I can do things that many others cannot and there are lots of techniques that other officials use effectively that have been disasters for me. What works is learned by trail and error. Try a couple of things with coaches who have different personalities and see what happens.

I absolutely believe that "when in Rome..." If the people who are in charge want you to look for other ways out of situations, then by all means look for alternative solutions, but don't let them abuse you.

Juulie - as you well know because we have worked together, I don't get much flak from coaches, but when I do, I am not adverse to giving the T if I feel it is warranted. Many times on this board I have quoted Ed Hightower who said that the purpose of a technical foul is to stop bad behavior, and if you can stop the bad behavior without having to issue the technical, you are just that much ahead.

Apparently, I have come a long way since the days when my association permanently named their annual "Mr. T" award after me. ;)