Fastest T in The West

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

I'm sorry Snags, you overreacted! They got under your skin. You got to get out more man, put the rulebook down, take a deep breath, relax, now repeat after me. "it ain't all about me!...."

You're welcome to your opinion. However, we've been told directly to control this behavior the way I did it. Also, regardless of what you say, he wasn't under my skin. But, again, if you want to think I let him get to me, that's your right. I know better, because I was there and I know how calm I was. The T worked, both coaches settled down the rest of the game and we had a very cordial chat afterwards (standard in AAU ball).

I'm beyond the point in my career where I make calls I can't justify, so feel free to ask questions and learn any lessons you can.

Oh, and one more small point to help you look less ignorant. If your'e going to shorten my screen name and talk to me like a friend, use a Q instead of a G. It's more accurate.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You're welcome to your opinion. However, we've been told directly to control this behavior the way I did it. Also, regardless of what you say, he wasn't under my skin. But, again, if you want to think I let him get to me, that's your right. I know better, because I was there and I know how calm I was. The T worked, both coaches settled down the rest of the game and we had a very cordial chat afterwards (standard in AAU ball).

Nice try Snags with a "G", if he didn't get under your skin, why didn't you give him a warning? That's enough coach! Probably would have accomplished the same thing and got you even more respect without having to issue a technical. Since you want to talk about lessons learned. For the listening audience, is it better in your opinion, to address a potential problem situation using game management or just issuing a T? Better yet, if you're the assigner or coach, because let's face it, coaches have a voice too, who do you think will get the nod to move further, the quick draw T calling official or the official who applies good game management skills and doesn't have to issue a T to get his point across? Just thought I throw that in for food for thought. Not bad for a classic troll, uh!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

Just thought I throw that in for food for thought. Not bad for a classic troll, uh!

Actually, it's just about right for a classic troll.

It makes no sense.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

Nice try Snags with a "G",

This was an opportunity for you to be cordial. No more, no less. Your call.

Originally Posted by Old School

if he didn't get under your skin, why didn't you give him a warning?

Perhaps that is the difference in our thinking. I'm giving the T when the behavior is over the line of unsporting; before they get under my skin. You wait until they're under your skin before giving the T. Which do you think the assigners prefer, someone who lets them get under his skin, or someone who nips the problem and never allows it to escalate?

Originally Posted by Old School

That's enough coach! Probably would have accomplished the same thing and got you even more respect without having to issue a technical. Since you want to talk about lessons learned. For the listening audience, is it better in your opinion, to address a potential problem situation using game management or just issuing a T?

You assume the two are mutually exclusive. In my opinion, in this situation, game management called for a T. Had the assistant coach merely stood and made a quiet compaint, or had he been consistently standing to coach, I'd have reminded the head coach of the rule and we would have moved on. However, by standing up and yelling at me, he moved to the point where the T became the proper and most effective call.

Originally Posted by Old School

Better yet, if you're the assigner or coach, because let's face it, coaches have a voice too, who do you think will get the nod to move further, the quick draw T calling official or the official who applies good game management skills and doesn't have to issue a T to get his point across?

Here's some advice. Go to wikipedia.org and and look up "False Dichotomy" and "Strawman." The two of them pretty much define how your debate style. Now, to "answer" your question, how about the official who knows and applies and enforces the rules. Coaches don't have any say around here, especially in AAU. Regardless, I'd rather have a reputation for fair rule enforcement than a reputation for being willing to take all kinds of sh!t from coaches.

Originally Posted by Old School

Just thought I throw that in for food for thought. Not bad for a classic troll, uh!

I'm sure you can do better.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

This was an opportunity for you to be cordial. No more, no less. Your call.

Oh really, after you made this statement.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Oh, and one more small point to help you look less ignorant. If your'e going to shorten my screen name and talk to me like a friend, use a Q instead of a G. It's more accurate.

So, you're one of those guys that think his sh!t don't stink!

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Perhaps that is the difference in our thinking. I'm giving the T when the behavior is over the line of unsporting; before they get under my skin. You wait until they're under your skin before giving the T. Which do you think the assigners prefer, someone who lets them get under his skin, or someone who nips the problem and never allows it to escalate?

It's called having thick skin you moron. If you're going to be a good official, you're going to have to toughen up a little bit here. Just as clear as the words I'm writing. If you pull that on Bobby Knight and his crew or some other DI coaches. You won't be working no more of their games because the cocah is going to call your assigner and tell him, anybody but you, and here's the other true part. You will never know this conversation took place but you will notice the next year, you didn't get as many assignments. I'm just being real.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Now, to "answer" your question, how about the official who knows and applies and enforces the rules. Coaches don't have any say around here, especially in AAU. Regardless, I'd rather have a reputation for fair rule enforcement than a reputation for being willing to take all kinds of sh!t from coaches.I'm sure you can do better.

Oh, you will have a reputation alright. That reputation is you are a thin-skin official who you better not say to much too or he'll T you up. Then they will say, is OS available? I'd rather have OS because he's more into officiating the game then asserting his authority, plus, he understands the difference between emotional outbursts on a play and personal attacks on his officiating. If you think coaches don't have any say, just think about this. Who approves the rules that we are govern by? And yes, even in the AAU.

Have a nice day...and remember, don't shoot the messenger.

[howie719]

My fastest T this year was last night. Less than a minute in the game A1 knocks ball out of bounds off of B1 opposite table. Ball goes to A1, coach B freaks out. 7/8th championship game. I'm standing by B's bench next trip and he's in my ear and says "This is the championship game don't cheat the kids". Whack! I told him if he had a question I would be happy to address it at the appropiate time (i.e. why did A get the ball on that inbounds play). I would have told you it clearly went off your player but your angle at some 60ft away wasn't good. However, suggesting we might cheat you in some manner is unexceptable, and my partner and I won't listen to that.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by howie719

My fastest T this year was last night. Less than a minute in the game A1 knocks ball out of bounds off of B1 opposite table. Ball goes to A1, coach B freaks out. 7/8th championship game. I'm standing by B's bench next trip and he's in my ear and says "This is the championship game don't cheat the kids". Whack!

This is a good technical, no question asked, and "you can remain seated the rest of the game!" Notice the attack on your character, integrity and also the fact that he went down the court and back. Big difference. This is the ones you want to get Snaqs, this is like hitting a home run. What a setup! Perfect pitch, perfect swing, WHACK!!!!

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Old School

You won't be working no more of their games because the cocah is going to call your assigner

If you "won't be working no more of their games" then you will be working more of their games so that's a good thing.

BTW - can a "cocah" really use a phone?

I think Old School needs to go back to school.

[M&M Guy]

Old School - I have asked you some direct questions several times before, and you have apparently chosen to ignore these questions. I think it's fair to everyone involved for you to either answer these questions truthfully, or stop posting your opinions.

1. Do you officiate basketball?
2. What level(s) do you currently work? YMCA, grade school, high school, D-3, D-2, D-1 college, NBA?
4. How long have you worked at these levels?
5. Do you have a current copy of the NFHS rule book?

If I am going to have my house re-wired, or if I'm going in to have knee surgery, I'm checking on the credentials of the person on whose opinions I am relying upon. In your case, you have posted many opinions that are well outside the norm in officiating circles, as well as many incorrect rule references and interpretations. If we knew of your actual credentials, it might lend some credence to your opinions. If you refuse to give us that information, you will continue to be looked upon as someone who knows very little about basketball officiating, and you will continue to get many negative responses on this forum, as you should.

Have a nice day.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Old School - I have asked you some direct questions several times before, and you have apparently chosen to ignore these questions. I think it's fair to everyone involved for you to either answer these questions truthfully, or stop posting your opinions.

1. Do you officiate basketball? Yes
2. What level(s) do you currently work? YMCA, grade school, high school, college, NBA? Everything except NBA.
4. How long have you worked at these levels? 15+ years
5. Do you have a current copy of the NFHS rule book? Next Question

If I am going to have my house re-wired, or if I'm going in to have knee surgery, I'm checking on the credentials of the person on whose opinions I am relying upon. No you're not, you're going to the hospital and you expect there will be a qualified doctor there that specializies in this type of surgery. I should qualify this. That's how most of us would do it.

In your case, you have posted many opinions that are well outside the norm in officiating circles, as well as many incorrect rule references and interpretations. If we knew of your actual credentials, it might lend some credence to your opinions. If you refuse to give us that information, you will continue to be looked upon as someone who knows very little about basketball officiating, and you will continue to get many negative responses on this forum, as you should.

Fisrt of all, I've answered the questions about my credentials, 2nd, I can live with that because after all, it's just my opinion! Have a nice day to you, too...

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Old School

Fisrt of all, I've answered the questions about my credentials, 2nd, I can live with that because after all, it's just my opinion! Have a nice day to you, too...

Ok, humor me then. I missed the answers, so can you answer them again, right here?

1. Do you officiate basketball?
2. What level(s) do you currently work? YMCA, grade school, high school, D-3, D-2, D-1 college, NBA?
3. How long have you worked at these levels?
4. Do you have a current copy of the NFHS rule book?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

Oh really, after you made this statement.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

blah blah blah

Originally Posted by Old School

So, you're one of those guys that think his sh!t don't stink!

No, I was referring to the way you were coming across.

Originally Posted by Old School

It's called having thick skin you moron. If you're going to be a good official, you're going to have to toughen up a little bit here.

Awe, now you're just projecting.

Originally Posted by Old School

Just as clear as the words I'm writing. If you pull that on Bobby Knight and his crew or some other DI coaches.

If you honestly think Knight's assistant coaches are going to pull anything like what this assistant did, you're not really paying attention. And Knight's had his share of Ts, but I'm guessing the refs that called them didn't feel any repercussions from them. But, it's a guess, so if you have concrete evidence to the contrary you're welcome to impart that knowledge.

Originally Posted by Old School

You won't be working no more of their games because the cocah is going to call your assigner and tell him, anybody but you, and here's the other true part. You will never know this conversation took place but you will notice the next year, you didn't get as many assignments. I'm just being real.

First off, you can't possibly think I'd officiate a major conference D-1 game the same way I officiate a 14u AAU game. No one is that obtuse. Secondly, I'll bet if you calm down, keep your emotions in check, and type more slowly, you could avoid these silly spelling errors.

Originally Posted by Old School

Oh, you will have a reputation alright. That reputation is you are a thin-skin official who you better not say to much too or he'll T you up. Then they will say, is OS available? I'd rather have OS because he's more into officiating the game then asserting his authority, plus, he understands the difference between emotional outbursts on a play and personal attacks on his officiating. If you think coaches don't have any say, just think about this. Who approves the rules that we are govern by? And yes, even in the AAU.

I honestly think you're smarter than this, but I can only hold out for so long.

[SmokeEater]

Every time I read one of OS posts and the replies it generates, it makes me wonder if I should go see a Doctor. because I start laughing so much I think I have weakened my bladder and I pee a bit each time....

[Old School]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

Every time I read one of OS posts and the replies it generates, it makes me wonder if I should go see a Doctor. because I start laughing so much I think I have weakened my bladder and I pee a bit each time....

You're welcome for the laughts, just don't hurt yourself. Laughter is good for the sole, and you guys wanted me kicked out. See how much joy I have bought to the board!

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If you honestly think Knight's assistant coaches are going to pull anything like what this assistant did, you're not really paying attention.

If you blow a damn traveling call like you did, you will hear it from them, or if they thought you blew it, you would hear it from them. There's no difference in coaches responses at any level if they think you blew a call.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

First off, you can't possibly think I'd officiate a major conference D-1 game the same way I officiate a 14u AAU game.

Why the hell not! Okay, so now you're saying if it's DI you won't make that call. That's what I was trying to tell you all alone. If you're not going to call if at the upper level, don't call it at the lower level. Give the coaches the same amount of respect, especially if you kicked the call.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Secondly, I'll bet if you calm down, keep your emotions in check, and type more slowly, you could avoid these silly spelling errors.

Good one! I got a good laugh out of this one.