Why I hate Rec league

[Adam]

fonzzy, Good call. It's one thing to let a "little" travel go, it's quite another to let a play go that purposefully (if ignorantly) breaks the rules. This coach was teaching the girls to do something that's illegal. That's got to be called.

Would I make this call in my partner's area? No. That said, your league assigner on this apparently wants you doing this for rookies. While I don't necessarily agree with this philosophy, it is what it is. You're doing fine if that's what he wants you to do.

Now, on to your original question. Was there a game/site manager present to help you with this? If so, get him/her involved and tell them this individual needs to be escorted from the gymnasium. Your other option is (if the time frame is reasonable, I can't quite tell from the OP) to issue him a flagrant T. The comments he made to you would have been a flagrant T in the middle of a game, and the final horn does not end your jurisdiction.

After re-reading the OP, it sounds like not much time had elapsed from the final horn. In a HS game, you'd have been off the court. However, since you hadn't left, you still had jurisdiction for a T. Don't be afraid to use it; and if you do it, make it flagrant.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

If you're going to reach out of your area to make a call, it needs to be something brutal, that we just can't let go. IOW, if there's no blood on the court you don't go into your partners area to make that call. If you do, and it happens to decide the game against my team. I, as the coach, am going to think you are cheating. You got something personal against my team. Be advised..hostilities, emotion of the moment, not good....

And the coach's opinion matters why?

[reffish]

Risking to sound preachy, I want to comment. The first thing I noticed is this is a 5th grade game. I would hope that you pointed out to the players what the violation was to further prevent any further violations. Second, I admire your determination to educate your partner, however; calling the violation in front of your partner is a HUGE reach. Be patient and let your partner live and die with their whistle or lack thereof. There is nothing wrong with that. Lastly, if your assigner wants this league to be the educational environment, why not call the ball back and tell them to roll it correctly. There was no advantage gained by the 5th grade girl unknowingly roll the ball on the line. Especially if there was no press. Blow the whistle, tell the 5th grade girl how to roll the ball corretly, and then tell the coach (both of them). That is a wonderful teaching moment. This mentality is what I take into my middle school games, especially the 6th grade level games. High school and DII games, a bit differently. Thank you for reading and commenting.

[fonzzy07]

Originally Posted by reffish

Risking to sound preachy, I want to comment. The first thing I noticed is this is a 5th grade game. I would hope that you pointed out to the players what the violation was to further prevent any further violations. Second, I admire your determination to educate your partner, however; calling the violation in front of your partner is a HUGE reach. Be patient and let your partner live and die with their whistle or lack thereof. There is nothing wrong with that. Lastly, if your assigner wants this league to be the educational environment, why not call the ball back and tell them to roll it correctly. There was no advantage gained by the 5th grade girl unknowingly roll the ball on the line. Especially if there was no press. Blow the whistle, tell the 5th grade girl how to roll the ball corretly, and then tell the coach (both of them). That is a wonderful teaching moment. This mentality is what I take into my middle school games, especially the 6th grade level games. High school and DII games, a bit differently. Thank you for reading and commenting.

I would hope that you pointed out to the players what the violation was to further prevent any further violations. Correct I did this the first time she did it.
The press was allowed however. You are correct maybe that could have been a teaching moment, or maybe the first time. o well
I'M STILL INTERESTED IN IN HEARING WHAT YOU WOULD DO IF YOU WERE THE LEAGUE COMMISSIONER? WOULD YOU HAND OUT ANY PUNISHEMENT AND IF SO WHAT?

[reffish]

As the assigner, I would...wonder as you work with a rookie, who probably ball watches the entire game, why would you watch the ball, your partner is watching the ball. Take care of everything else that happens on the court, like the coaches, like you did. Punishment for the AC, well, that is up to the assigner. What they broker with the school is what will happen and you have said your peace. That is all you can do. Keep working and do what you do on the court.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by fonzzy07

I'M STILL INTERESTED IN IN HEARING WHAT YOU WOULD DO IF YOU WERE THE LEAGUE COMMISSIONER? WOULD YOU HAND OUT ANY PUNISHEMENT AND IF SO WHAT?

IMHO, there are things you can control, and things you can't. What the commissioner does or doesn't do, is definitely a cannot control. You've filed your report. Move on.

[JerzeeRef]

At times your game management skills in a game of 9 & 10 year old children plays a big part. Calling every violation or foul can drag these games out and never allow any flow (Ha !) to develop. We have all had games at this level and you do pick and choose to pass on certain situations.

With 10 bodies moving around on the floor, me getting screened is always a possibility. While we do have our area of coverage, if my partner observes something in my area (but not 3/4 the lenght of the court on an inbound violation)..........call away, we are working as a team. Talk to your partner after the game and point out areas that need improvment, and also point out things he did well.......positive comments.

At the end of the game I am making a quick exit somewhere. I do not owe anyone an explanation for anything. This is going to add fuel to the fire that is already burning. Regardless of the level, game management, and court awareness ranks right up there with knowing the rule book inside and out.

[ref18]

Originally Posted by DC_Ref12

But doesn't the official's manual say that just because a violation happens outside your area, that doesn't mean you shouldn't blow the whistle?

I live and die by my calls, and my partner does the same. It's not fair to my partner if I call in his/her area, and how is my partner going to learn how to make calls if I make them all for them.

If my partner makes a habit of continually calling in my area, I'm going to mention it at halftime or in our postgame.

Half the time it's because I want to see some more of the play develop before I put air in the whistle. Why cancel a score to call what could be a meaningless foul?

I've had partners who don't understand the concept of advantage/disadvantage, and will call something everytime they see contact.

This pisses me off more than you can imagine.

Basketball is a contact sport, if the players didn't want to play in a contact environment then they should be learning to dance ballet.

But I can't stand it when I have a partner who repeatedly calls in my area. And if it happens you can be assured it will get brought up.

[ChrisSportsFan]

You said it was a 5 or 6 point game right? Team B is rolling the ball in an obvious end of the game situation, right? Maybe a few seconds on the clock right? I'm thinking with a few second left, a 5th grade girls team is not going to makeup 5-6 points. If this is a call in your area and you see fit, then blow your whistle. If you've gotta call long distance, leave it alone.

Regarding the coaches punishment, you've written your report now it's up to them. Just leave it alone and move on. We can all senerio what we think should happen. He may get more and may get less but that's not for us to decide. It probably would have helped your cause to issue a T after the game. It probably would have also helped the cause of every future ref this coach will have so he knows that the game is over when the horn goes off.

I will PM you to see where you were at.

[MadCityRef]

I'm still not clear what the violation is. First you said the girl rolled the ball ON the line, then it was OVER the line. Explain more, please. Oh, and a rule reference.

[Adam]

I think you guys are missing the point. This particular assigner wants him to make this call. This particular assigner wants him to look for it in the rookie partner's area. You can argue with the assigner's philosophy (and I would), but I find it hard to argue with fonzzy making the calls (either of them) when it's his assigner that wants both calls made if necessary.
You could argue that making the 2nd call is more important because he's already alerted the coach that it's illegal.

[NewNCref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I think you guys are missing the point. This particular assigner wants him to make this call. This particular assigner wants him to look for it in the rookie partner's area. You can argue with the assigner's philosophy (and I would), but I find it hard to argue with fonzzy making the calls (either of them) when it's his assigner that wants both calls made if necessary.
You could argue that making the 2nd call is more important because he's already alerted the coach that it's illegal.

I agree Snaq, while I don't agree with it, if it's what he's being asked to do, then there's not much he can do.

Just something that I try to do anytime I make a call such as the violation called here is, after I communicate the nature of the violation to the coach, to have a brief word with my partner. I might say something like, "I just explained to the coach that they can't do X, so let's just make sure we watch for it." You're not talking down the them in any way, you've explained a rule to them, you can start calling more in your primary and less in your partners, and it only takes a second. It's a win-win situation I think.

Other than that fonzzy, I'd just reiterate what most of the guy around here have already said. Anytime a coach comes after you, do your best to get away. I've worked rec leagues and college intramurals, and I know that it can be hard, but just do the best you can.

[MadCityRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I think you guys are missing the point. This particular assigner wants him to make this call. This particular assigner wants him to look for it in the rookie partner's area. You can argue with the assigner's philosophy (and I would), but I find it hard to argue with fonzzy making the calls (either of them) when it's his assigner that wants both calls made if necessary.
You could argue that making the 2nd call is more important because he's already alerted the coach that it's illegal.

Where in the original post does Fonz say the assignor wants him to call the entire floor?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MadCityRef

Where in the original post does Fonz say the assignor wants him to call the entire floor?

Allow me to direct your attention to post #5. Before reading it, I was going to try to make a comment about letting your partner decide whether or not to make the call.

Originally Posted by Fonzzy07

in the rec leagues around here when we work with rookies we are told to look at things like this( my rookie was a freshman in HS) so that we catch things they miss, then we tell them these things and they learn is the idea, my assignor had no problem with me looking there

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MadCityRef

I'm still not clear what the violation is. First you said the girl rolled the ball ON the line, then it was OVER the line. Explain more, please. Oh, and a rule reference.

Failing to pass the ball directly inbounds. If a throwin first hits OOB, it's a violation.