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-   -   We have an Official in the Area that: (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/32325-we-have-official-area.html)

Adam Wed Feb 28, 2007 05:36pm
If I got to 3 or 4 games with successive Ts, I might evaluate myself to see if I'm doing something to provoke them. However, knowing my style, that's not likely to be the case. It might be that I could work on my communication to see if there's some way to prevent them; but even that's a stretch. Sometimes, you just have to address the behavior. Does 8 in a row sound excessive? Maybe in HS sanctioned games. But I could see it happening in AAU until they get the message that they aren't going to act like coach K in my games.

Jurassic Referee Wed Feb 28, 2007 05:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyvol
I understand, but if I were to get to games 3 -4 with successive T's I would try and find other avenues to take care of business. Not soo sure that a T is always the answer. Communication is a fine line and some officials choose to T....thinking that this is the only way to take care of matters. <font color = red>I choose not too but other do I guess</font>.
And if others choose not to, is that reason enough that they should quit officiating, as you intimated in your original post?:confused:

mick Wed Feb 28, 2007 06:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyvol
Has basically run his course. Every time I turn around I hear things about this guy. Lets see, he had a streak of 8 consecutive games last year in which he gave a Technical too someone. To start this year he had 5 games in a row with a Technical. Lately, he has thrown out 2 fans and a coach. He *****es and moans that he never does State Tourney games. I wonder why. I usually learn from things that happen, he obviously doesnt and would rather be an attention getter. Talk about officiating with a guy that would put you in a pecuilliar position each night out, if I were his partner I would tell him to shape up or if you dont I wont work with you anymore. Thoughts about this are welcome and would you work with someone like this? Too me he is compounding everything and I believe its time for him to either seek Officiating camp or quit. We dont need this type of behavior from fellow officials. Do We?
...But he keeps getting hired.
Somebody sees his worth.

Junker Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:53am
I agree that you can't evaluate an official on the amount of T's he or she has to assess. That really has nothing to do with an official's ablility. As I was coming up, to get into the 4A varsity I had to put in a couple of years of freshman and sophmore games in that league. I had already worked quite a bit of varsity, but had to wait my turn for the bigger games. I probably gave out at least 2 T's a week. The coaches didn't know me and they wanted to see how far they could go. They found out in a hurry. Personally, I'd rather work with a partner that is a little quicker with the T than one that will not throw one.

Adam Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junker
Personally, I'd rather work with a partner that is a little quicker with the T than one that will not throw one.
Agreed, but I'd settle for one who will at least back me up when I call one. :)

JRutledge Thu Mar 01, 2007 01:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junker
I agree that you can't evaluate an official on the amount of T's he or she has to assess. That really has nothing to do with an official's ablility.
I disagree with that statement. You can judge many things by the number of Ts an official give out. It might not be the end all, be all of what they can or cannot do, but it is a factor. The only question I would have is were all these Ts given out at the same level or were the Ts given with known problem schools. I threw out a coach this year at the freshman level and I know the coach was not used to working with an official as experienced as I am on a regular basis. I have never in my entire career thrown out a varsity coach. I think it can say something about an official and can be used to decide if the problem is the official or the players and coaches involved.

Peace

jkjenning Thu Mar 01, 2007 03:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
I have never in my entire career thrown out a varsity coach. I think it can say something about an official and can be used to decide if the problem is the official or the players and coaches involved.
or maybe the official is aware of this perception and simply avoids giving out T's that should be given - it cuts both ways, imo

JRutledge Thu Mar 01, 2007 03:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkjenning
or maybe the official is aware of this perception and simply avoids giving out T's that should be given - it cuts both ways, imo
I strongly believe if you can stop behavior without giving a T, then that is a win-win for the official. And whether a T should be given out or not is completely a judgment call. Often times there are things that one official might jump all over, while another official might handle in another way. I do know one thing. We officials try to say that giving out Ts is just like calling another foul. That is not at all true because there is more discussion over what should or should not be a foul than almost any other aspect of the game.

Peace

jkjenning Thu Mar 01, 2007 04:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
I strongly believe if you can stop behavior without giving a T, then that is a win-win for the official. And whether a T should be given out or not is completely a judgment call.
Yes, and without calling some Ts it is difficult to develop the best judgment. I think the message many less experienced officials get is that if they somehow avoid calling Ts that is a 'feather in their cap' when in fact they are swallowing their whistle in instances where they should not. I think you could make a case that an official will either start out calling too many or later on he/she will avoid calling those that should be assessed, so a minimal number of Ts is not a good measuring stick by itself.

JRutledge Thu Mar 01, 2007 04:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkjenning
Yes, and without calling some Ts it is difficult to develop the best judgment. I think the message many less experienced officials get is that if they somehow avoid calling Ts that is a 'feather in their cap' when in fact they are swallowing their whistle in instances where they should not. I think you could make a case that an official will either start out calling too many or later on he/she will avoid calling those that should be assessed, so a minimal number of Ts is not a good measuring stick by itself.
I agree you can take anything to the extreme. But giving Ts are not going to solve all your problems if you do not know how to communicate, be approachable or get a point across. Given a T is very easy to do. It is actually too easy. Standing next to a coach or player and getting "in their face" is another issue all together. A lot of officials do not have the courage to stand next to a coach and tell them how to behave and then stand behind their words. I guess it is just how you look at it.

Peace

ronny mulkey Fri Mar 02, 2007 07:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Agreed, but I'd settle for one who will at least back me up when I call one. :)
I know several guys that would back you up, but they are past their prime.

ronny mulkey Fri Mar 02, 2007 07:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyvol
Has basically run his course. Every time I turn around I hear things about this guy. Lets see, he had a streak of 8 consecutive games last year in which he gave a Technical too someone. To start this year he had 5 games in a row with a Technical. Lately, he has thrown out 2 fans and a coach. He *****es and moans that he never does State Tourney games. I wonder why. I usually learn from things that happen, he obviously doesnt and would rather be an attention getter. Talk about officiating with a guy that would put you in a pecuilliar position each night out, if I were his partner I would tell him to shape up or if you dont I wont work with you anymore. Thoughts about this are welcome and would you work with someone like this? Too me he is compounding everything and I believe its time for him to either seek Officiating camp or quit. We dont need this type of behavior from fellow officials. Do We?
2 things come to mind quickly:

1. Your assignor should know if he has "ran his course"
2. Maybe you should work with him several times next
season to show him how it is done

Old School Fri Mar 02, 2007 01:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Agreed, but I'd settle for one who will at least back me up when I call one. :)
There's a reason for that! You might want to start by looking within.

Adam Fri Mar 02, 2007 02:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Agreed, but I'd settle for one who will at least back me up when I call one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
There's a reason for that! You might want to start by looking within.
Awe stop it. You're hurting my feelings. :(

Kelvin green Fri Mar 02, 2007 02:17pm
Your point on the number of games he had had T\'s

Remember a technial is just that a technical violation of the rules; If somone breaks the rules and crosses the line. I had several games with T\'s this year and everyone of them was deserved and had to be called.

I had a fan removed from a game as well. I dont know why he called the T\'s that he did, but we have various arrows in qur quiver and a T is one. If you never use it then there is an issue.

We had one coach here tossed 4 times. We had a couple of other women\'s coaches pick up 3 or 4 t\'s this year. I can tell you it was not the officiating that caused these... There may be bigger issues than him just having a streak of 5 T\'s.


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