We have an Official in the Area that:
 

Has basically run his course. Every time I turn around I hear things about this guy. Lets see, he had a streak of 8 consecutive games last year in which he gave a Technical too someone. To start this year he had 5 games in a row with a Technical. Lately, he has thrown out 2 fans and a coach. He *****es and moans that he never does State Tourney games. I wonder why. I usually learn from things that happen, he obviously doesnt and would rather be an attention getter. Talk about officiating with a guy that would put you in a pecuilliar position each night out, if I were his partner I would tell him to shape up or if you dont I wont work with you anymore. Thoughts about this are welcome and would you work with someone like this? Too me he is compounding everything and I believe its time for him to either seek Officiating camp or quit. We dont need this type of behavior from fellow officials. Do We?

mightyvol,

If you felt this way about me, you should have come to me privately! :D

Ok, just kidding! I've not come across anybody like this yet.

The worst I've seen is guys who are, shall we say, past their prime.

In all honesty I respect the officials in our area. Ive been doing this nearly 15 years and dont try to step on anyone elses toes. I dont know the guy personally and dont care too. I just think that he is doing an injustice to the profession of officiating and he doesnt know it. Obviously if I knew him I would not stand for his actions and he would know it. I guarantee it.

I wouldn't work with anyone like this nor would I worry about him or what he does.

And your point???? :confused:

Was this official ever give the chance to defend his actions by explaining why he issued the Ts and the ejections? Or are you just going off of what people have said about him?

Have you worked with him personally and can you state specific examples where his actions were not appropriate?

"We have an Official in the Area that: "
 

Only ONE? I guess you're not reffing PHS ball in my area.

I don't buy that at all. People don't change and become bad or power-hungry officials just because they get older.

We have some older officials in our group that are past their prime. They still call a good game and they still manage a good game.

We have a couple older officials that don't call a good game and look for trouble. However, they were never top-notch officials when they were younger either.

I'm just saying that's the worst I've seen. I mean, by this, that I've been fortunate not to officiate with show boats or T-machines.
I've reffed with a few guys who are way past their prime and just can't get up and down the court. They call an "ok" game. They still get games because they're not awful, they're willing to ref, they're available to leave town early for assignments, and there just aren't enough quality refs to retire them yet.

My point is this. Do you think that this is a necessary means of taking care of "business" I would hope not. Any official that seeks to become a better game manager certainly would not use this as part of his criteria. Come on man, you know where Im coming from you arent blind.

Point also being is, How much longer does the State High School League put up with his act until they intervene? They have to have some form of knowledge of whats going on, becuause I received all my information from our Executive Secretary.

So......I take it that you can you explain why <b>none</b> of the technical fouls that he handed out were warranted. Please do so. Maybe then we can give you our feelings.

Mark's point, I think, is that you really didn't say anything about him that is a cause for concern. Sometimes, you're going to have streaks where you have to call technicals on coaches. I'm currently in the midst of a two-game streak. :)
Now, if there are other things involved (and it sounds like there may be), that's fine. But the comment on the Ts is, by itself, not very informative.

I understand, but if I were to get to games 3 -4 with successive T's I would try and find other avenues to take care of business. Not soo sure that a T is always the answer. Communication is a fine line and some officials choose to T....thinking that this is the only way to take care of matters. I choose not too but other do I guess. Thanks for your time. I think this has cleared it up for me.

If I got to 3 or 4 games with successive Ts, I might evaluate myself to see if I'm doing something to provoke them. However, knowing my style, that's not likely to be the case. It might be that I could work on my communication to see if there's some way to prevent them; but even that's a stretch. Sometimes, you just have to address the behavior. Does 8 in a row sound excessive? Maybe in HS sanctioned games. But I could see it happening in AAU until they get the message that they aren't going to act like coach K in my games.

And if others choose not to, is that reason enough that they should quit officiating, as you intimated in your original post?:confused:

...But he keeps getting hired.
Somebody sees his worth.

I agree that you can't evaluate an official on the amount of T's he or she has to assess. That really has nothing to do with an official's ablility. As I was coming up, to get into the 4A varsity I had to put in a couple of years of freshman and sophmore games in that league. I had already worked quite a bit of varsity, but had to wait my turn for the bigger games. I probably gave out at least 2 T's a week. The coaches didn't know me and they wanted to see how far they could go. They found out in a hurry. Personally, I'd rather work with a partner that is a little quicker with the T than one that will not throw one.

Agreed, but I'd settle for one who will at least back me up when I call one. :)

I disagree with that statement. You can judge many things by the number of Ts an official give out. It might not be the end all, be all of what they can or cannot do, but it is a factor. The only question I would have is were all these Ts given out at the same level or were the Ts given with known problem schools. I threw out a coach this year at the freshman level and I know the coach was not used to working with an official as experienced as I am on a regular basis. I have never in my entire career thrown out a varsity coach. I think it can say something about an official and can be used to decide if the problem is the official or the players and coaches involved.

Peace

or maybe the official is aware of this perception and simply avoids giving out T's that should be given - it cuts both ways, imo

I strongly believe if you can stop behavior without giving a T, then that is a win-win for the official. And whether a T should be given out or not is completely a judgment call. Often times there are things that one official might jump all over, while another official might handle in another way. I do know one thing. We officials try to say that giving out Ts is just like calling another foul. That is not at all true because there is more discussion over what should or should not be a foul than almost any other aspect of the game.

Peace

Yes, and without calling some Ts it is difficult to develop the best judgment. I think the message many less experienced officials get is that if they somehow avoid calling Ts that is a 'feather in their cap' when in fact they are swallowing their whistle in instances where they should not. I think you could make a case that an official will either start out calling too many or later on he/she will avoid calling those that should be assessed, so a minimal number of Ts is not a good measuring stick by itself.

I agree you can take anything to the extreme. But giving Ts are not going to solve all your problems if you do not know how to communicate, be approachable or get a point across. Given a T is very easy to do. It is actually too easy. Standing next to a coach or player and getting "in their face" is another issue all together. A lot of officials do not have the courage to stand next to a coach and tell them how to behave and then stand behind their words. I guess it is just how you look at it.

Peace

I know several guys that would back you up, but they are past their prime.

2 things come to mind quickly:

1. Your assignor should know if he has "ran his course"
2. Maybe you should work with him several times next
season to show him how it is done

There's a reason for that! You might want to start by looking within.

Awe stop it. You're hurting my feelings. :(

Your point on the number of games he had had T's

Remember a technial is just that a technical violation of the rules; If somone breaks the rules and crosses the line. I had several games with T's this year and everyone of them was deserved and had to be called.

I had a fan removed from a game as well. I dont know why he called the T's that he did, but we have various arrows in qur quiver and a T is one. If you never use it then there is an issue.

We had one coach here tossed 4 times. We had a couple of other women's coaches pick up 3 or 4 t's this year. I can tell you it was not the officiating that caused these... There may be bigger issues than him just having a streak of 5 T's.

I disagree. If you call a minimum or none at all and you are a good official. I think you would be the type of official that coaches/assigners prefer. If you are the type of official that calls a lot of conduct T's, I don't think that is good, new or old. That shows your lack of ability to manage and control the situation and maybe on another level, you lack respect from players and coaches alike. Not good. My approach going into any games I work is not to call any technicals. If I get thru the game and not have to blast any, goal accomplished. Warnings, stop signs, maybe you need to just let the coach give you a few words and you say you will watch it closer is all that it takes.

I think the best thing to say about calling T's is to make sure it is deserved. If it is, you don't hesitate. Like a police officer who carries a gun. If you're going to use your gun, make sure it is deserved. Unlike the police, if we don't call a T, our life is not in the balance. The reason I say this is because, if the police should use his weapon and it turns out, it was not needed, he is in a lot of trouble, much the same as if you call a T that was not needed, it could spark a negative reaction, both on and off the court.

One thing I do want to be perfectly clear on. Even though I go into the game with no technicals being my goal. If something happens in the game that is way OOB, you don't hesitate to call a T. I had a regional men's tournament several years ago and I was in awe of the talent that was there. All of a sudden, foul and scuffle on the floor, one player cold cocks the other, I saw it and was shocked, didn't know what to do. After breaking up the scuffle I just called a foul on the player. It was a learning lesson for me because you have to be ready to pull that trigger when it needs to be pulled!!! You don't want the gun to be half cocked when you walk in the gym, and you don't want to be to lackadaisical either. Somewhere in between is where we have to ride, and that is not easy. This is where you separate the boys from the men.

Good debate!

Hello all. I'm new to this forum.

Just finished my first year as a basketball ref..........lots of fun.

I've been doing soccer for 10 years, IMHO, the beautiful game....

Other threads here have caught my eye and are, at times, discouraging.

This one takes the cake.

I often read here about bad refs, bad calls, hard to get along with, etc. Have any of you ever thought that YOU could be on the receiving end of this......behind your back?

I think everyone does the best they can. Because their "style" doesn't mix with you doesn't make them a bad ref...........just different.

I'm sure opinions of me, in my first year, were all over the map. I know opinions of me after 10 years of soccer are all over the map. All of us KNOW how diffucult reffing is. Why don't you give constructive criticism instead of plain old criticism? I know that's what I need!

Instead of being so incredably judgemental, why doesn't everyone here express their opinion with a bit more "been there, done that".

I know all of you have...........

Thanks for the floor...........flame away if you must

I'll try this again, but more constructively.

One should never go into a game with a goal for Ts, any more than you have a goal for travels or held balls.

It’s one thing to have a goal to talk more with coaches or to be better at communicating with them. That type of goal may very well decrease your technical fouls over time; but to suggest that the number of "conduct Ts" called, by itself, is somehow a good benchmark for your ability as an official is just bad advice.