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Old Tue Feb 27, 2007, 03:41pm
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Player leaves court

Was watching a GV playoff game the other evening and came across an unusual situation. A1 commits a foul on B1 and gets called for it. This leaves A1 visibly unhappy with the call. It was a bonus situation, so as the players where lining up for the free throws, A1 simply walks off the floor and sits down at the bench. No subs or anything. The officials saw this and actually appeared to be giving her a little extra time to get back on the floor before the ball was administer to the free-throw shoot. As soon as the ball was given to the shooter, the trail immediately signaled the technical foul.
Now, I canít seem to find in the rule book exactly what went down here (Iím a rookie so canít find things quickly yet). But was the T for leaving the court, or unsporting moping or for the coach not having 5 players on the court or something else. Also, if she would have returned before the ball was administered to the shooter would all have been well? Thanks.
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Old Tue Feb 27, 2007, 03:58pm
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Mostly likely and easiest to justify, it was for leaving the court for an unauthorized reason. It could have also been for unsportsmanlike conduct. Either way, it doesn't matter.
It sounds to me like they gave her a chance to correct herself. They could have called the T as soon as she sat down, but gave her a little more rope.
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Old Tue Feb 27, 2007, 04:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Mostly likely and easiest to justify, it was for leaving the court for an unauthorized reason. It could have also been for unsportsmanlike conduct. Either way, it doesn't matter.
It sounds to me like they gave her a chance to correct herself. They could have called the T as soon as she sat down, but gave her a little more rope.
In this case the T would have to be for unsporting conduct. It certainly does matter as leaving the floor for an unauthorized reason is NOT a technical foul; it is a violation and that rule only applies during a live ball. In the situation presented the player left during a dead ball.
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Old Tue Feb 27, 2007, 04:03pm
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I believe for starters leaving the court is just a violation, not a T. D

efinitely unsporting behavior and "T"able!
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Old Tue Feb 27, 2007, 04:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
In this case the T would have to be for unsporting conduct. It certainly does matter as leaving the floor for an unauthorized reason is NOT a technical foul; it is a violation and that rule only applies during a live ball. In the situation presented the player left during a dead ball.
Dammit! I got them mixed up again. It's failure to return after leaving for an authorized reason that's a T. That may be what they gave it to her for. My bad!
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Old Tue Feb 27, 2007, 04:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Dammit! I got them mixed up again. It's failure to return after leaving for an authorized reason that's a T. That may be what they gave it to her for. My bad!
I doubt that is why the T was given since this player was not OOB for an authorized reason and thus did not delay returning after being legally OOB.

Now I'm just messing with you, Adam.
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Old Tue Feb 27, 2007, 04:20pm
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I donít think anyone authorized her to leave the court. She just left and sat down. She still hadnít returned to the court even after the officials gave the ball to the shooter. So, wouldnít that be a T situation?
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Old Tue Feb 27, 2007, 04:23pm
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"authorized reason" is pretty vague, but Nevada is right. Pouting isn't considered an authorized reason, but it wasn't a live ball so the violation isn't in force. However, hitting her for not promptly returning to the court is an easy way to give the T. That said, it's a pretty easy call for a veteran official when she's doing it to express her disapproval with the call.
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Old Tue Feb 27, 2007, 04:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
"authorized reason" is pretty vague, but Nevada is right. Pouting isn't considered an authorized reason, but it wasn't a live ball so the violation isn't in force. However, hitting her for not promptly returning to the court is an easy way to give the T. That said, it's a pretty easy call for a veteran official when she's doing it to express her disapproval with the call.
Adam,
My point is that what is in red is not a technical foul in this situation by the book. The rules simply don't justify it.

My opinion is that what is in green is the right way to go.

For Vinski,
If a team accidently plays with four there is no prescribed penalty in the NFHS books. If the team attempts to purposely play with only four when five are available that is not allowed.
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Old Tue Feb 27, 2007, 04:43pm
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Please forgive me if I appear to be beating this, but let me pose this question another way. What if it was a different player not involved in the foul and she was just confused or tired? In other word there was no sportsmanship issue here at all. Would this have been just a violation and then team B would simply get the ball after the free throws were taken? What if she never returned to the court? I know; lots of what ifs. Thanks again for your replys.
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Old Tue Feb 27, 2007, 04:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
Adam,
My point is that what is in red is not a technical foul in this situation by the book. The rules simply don't justify it.

My opinion is that what is in green is the right way to go.

For Vinski,
If a team accidently plays with four there is no prescribed penalty in the NFHS books. If the team attempts to purposely play with only four when five are available that is not allowed.
I see what you're saying.
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Old Tue Feb 27, 2007, 04:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinski
Was watching a GV playoff game the other evening and came across an unusual situation. A1 commits a foul on B1 and gets called for it. This leaves A1 visibly unhappy with the call. It was a bonus situation, so as the players where lining up for the free throws, A1 simply walks off the floor and sits down at the bench. No subs or anything. The officials saw this and actually appeared to be giving her a little extra time to get back on the floor before the ball was administer to the free-throw shoot. As soon as the ball was given to the shooter, the trail immediately signaled the technical foul.
Now, I canít seem to find in the rule book exactly what went down here (Iím a rookie so canít find things quickly yet). But was the T for leaving the court, or unsporting moping or for the coach not having 5 players on the court or something else. Also, if she would have returned before the ball was administered to the shooter would all have been well? Thanks.

The instant A1's tushie hit the bench, she was getting a TF for unsportsmanlike behavior. End of story.

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Old Tue Feb 27, 2007, 04:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
Adam,
My point is that what is in red is not a technical foul in this situation by the book. The rules simply don't justify it.

My opinion is that what is in green is the right way to go.

For Vinski,
If a team accidently plays with four there is no prescribed penalty in the NFHS books. If the team attempts to purposely play with only four when five are available that is not allowed.
I am not clear on the final answer to this one. I am not sure, by rules, why the T was called at the time it was called. is the decision an unsportsman T? I would understand a Delay T perhaps at throw in and not having 5 players, but they made the ball live to the shooter, then called the T.

Would you please explain once more what you believe the call is for this?
Thanks
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Old Tue Feb 27, 2007, 05:02pm
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Regardless of the T situation, do not administer the free throw with fewer than 5 players on the court unless they don't have enough players. Not saying the T was incorrect nor am I saying I wouldn't have issued one, but depending on what happened, I might say to the coach, "I need a sub if she's out" and see what happened.
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Old Tue Feb 27, 2007, 05:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splute
I am not clear on the final answer to this one. I am not sure, by rules, why the T was called at the time it was called. is the decision an unsportsman T? I would understand a Delay T perhaps at throw in and not having 5 players, but they made the ball live to the shooter, then called the T.

Would you please explain once more what you believe the call is for this?
Thanks
I wasn't there and I can't tell you exactly what that official was thinking. All I can do is tell you the rules. So here goes:

It is my opinion that the only correct justification for a T in this situation is an unsporting foul under 10-3-7a.

If the calling official charged the T for the team not having five players on the court or for the player leaving the court for an unauthorized reason or for the player failing to return by the time the ball was made live, then the official was wrong by rule in his reasoning for the T.

If a player is confused and leaves the floor during a dead ball and the team now only has four players, there is no penalty in the NFHS rules book unless that player returns to the court during playing action. If the team waits until the next dead ball to put another team member into the game, there should be no penalty (either violation or technical foul) because there is no rule which an official can point to in order to justify making a call.
The following casebook play supports what I am writing:

10.3.3 SITUATION B: After a lengthy substitution process involving multiple substitutions for both Team A and Team B, A5 goes to the bench and remains there, believing he/she has been replaced. The ball is put in play even though Team A has only four players on the court. Team A is bringing the ball into A's frontcourt when the coach of Team A realizes they have only four players. The coach yells for A5 to return and A5 sprints directly onto the court without reporting or without being beckoned. RULING: A technical foul is charged to A5 for returning during playing action even though A5 had not been replaced.
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