The crew did nothing...

[TRef21]

Automatic T. Thats to keep the game of basketball respected.

[blindzebra]

I think it's convenient that many choose to use the, I don't have this problem in my game cop-out.

Of course they don't, because they ignore it, and leave the rest of us to clean up their mess later on...what you allow, you condone.

There is no room for that type of behavior in a HS game or lower, nor is there room for officials that allow it...have the sack to do what is right for the game and your fellow officials or don't officiate.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

I think it's convenient that many choose to use the, I don't have this problem in my game cop-out.

Of course they don't, because they ignore it, and leave the rest of us to clean up their mess later on...what you allow, you condone.

You must have a flagrant T every single game? Or are you advocating a flagrant T every single game is a must? Considering this happens all the time and it is just being ignored all officials have to step up and throw players out for this behavior.

Some officials have a reputation for many things. Maybe the officials that constantly have to deal with this do not know how to deal with people the proper way and only are penalizing behavior. Maybe there are another set of officials that know how to deal with people and they are not getting to the point where they are being cursed out. You think guys like Ed Hightower, Teddy Valentine, Teddy Higgins or Jim Burr do not have a reputation? I will not put myself on the same plane as any of those officials, but I do feel I have a reputation for not tolerating certain behavior and I work with a lot of officials that have similar reputations and no one dares to go there. Also if a team does not know me, they learn rather quickly that I do not put up with BS. All it takes is a little word with a coach and most conflict with players stops, because the coach takes care of it.

Peace

[DC_Ref12]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

but I do feel I have a reputation for not tolerating certain behavior and I work with a lot of officials that have similar reputations and no one dares to go there. Also if a team does not know me, they learn rather quickly that I do not put up with BS. All it takes is a little word with a coach and most conflict with players stops, because the coach takes care of it.

I think I understand what you're saying, JRut, but you got to this point in your career by being tough when it comes to situations like the OP, did you not?

I think perhaps you are looking at it from the perspective of a seasoned, well-known official, which is understandable. But many on this forum haven't been around our leagues/teams/coaches/players as long as you have, we don't have that "reputation" and so your advice really doesn't make any sense. How are you supposed to get to the point where players respect you if you don't lay down the law in these kinds of scenarios? How else are you supposed to build this "reputation" you speak of without being strict in cases like the OP?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by DC_Ref12

I think I understand what you're saying, JRut, but you got to this point in your career by being tough when it comes to situations like the OP, did you not?

I think perhaps you are looking at it from the perspective of a seasoned, well-known official, which is understandable. But many on this forum haven't been around our leagues/teams/coaches/players as long as you have, we don't have that "reputation" and so your advice really doesn't make any sense. How are you supposed to get to the point where players respect you if you don't lay down the law in these kinds of scenarios? How else are you supposed to build this "reputation" you speak of without being strict in cases like the OP?

Reputation has a lot to do with officiating and even helps officials know what type of team you are dealing with as well. I am not telling you something that is in a vacuum. Someone even said that officials with a little bit of grey hair are rarely questioned. It also helps if you are fit, in position and approachable. We all know officials that do not have the best reputations and everything they call is questioned.

Peace

[DC_Ref12]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Reputation has a lot to do with officiating and even helps officials know what type of team you are dealing with as well. I am not telling you something that is in a vacuum. Someone even said that officials with a little bit of grey hair are rarely questioned. It also helps if you are fit, in position and approachable. We all know officials that do not have the best reputations and everything they call is questioned.

Peace

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it almost seems like you are saying in a roundabout way that the OP brought this situation on himself by somehow not having a reputation and/or appearance that earned him respect. Am I wrong?

Sorry, I'm just not grasping what exactly this all has to do with the situation cited in the OP. I understand and appreciate the concept of reputation, but sometimes it's quite possible that you're just gonna have a player that goes nuclear. Then what do you do?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by DC_Ref12

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it almost seems like you are saying in a roundabout way that the OP brought this situation on himself by somehow not having a reputation and/or appearance that earned him respect. Am I wrong?

Where do you people come up with this stuff? Seriously for a second. Are you telling me that people do not judge us based on our appearance, experience, where we live, age, and demeanor. If you really want me to qualify this, then you have a lot to learn about officiating in general.

Originally Posted by DC_Ref12

Sorry, I'm just not grasping what exactly this all has to do with the situation cited in the OP. I understand and appreciate the concept of reputation, but sometimes it's quite possible that you're just gonna have a player that goes nuclear. Then what do you do?

I agree, you will not grasp it.

Peace

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You must have a flagrant T every single game? Or are you advocating a flagrant T every single game is a must? Considering this happens all the time and it is just being ignored all officials have to step up and throw players out for this behavior.

Some officials have a reputation for many things. Maybe the officials that constantly have to deal with this do not know how to deal with people the proper way and only are penalizing behavior. Maybe there are another set of officials that know how to deal with people and they are not getting to the point where they are being cursed out. You think guys like Ed Hightower, Teddy Valentine, Teddy Higgins or Jim Burr do not have a reputation? I will not put myself on the same plane as any of those officials, but I do feel I have a reputation for not tolerating certain behavior and I work with a lot of officials that have similar reputations and no one dares to go there. Also if a team does not know me, they learn rather quickly that I do not put up with BS. All it takes is a little word with a coach and most conflict with players stops, because the coach takes care of it.

Peace

So did you just admit that the type of behavior in the OP happens in every game you do?

Because that is how I'm reading it.

I don't care what rep Hightower, Valentine, Higgins and Burr have...but I guarantee you a player that screams you are Fing horrible at Teddy is getting whacked, and if it's in a HS game, that player is getting tossed...because it is irrelevant to the topic. I suspect it was just a means to talk about your rep, but that too isn't on topic.

What is on topic is:

1. The player in the OP did commit a flagrant act.

2. An official that ignores it completely is a disgrace to officiating.

3. An official that just T's the player and doesn't eject them, only makes that behavior worse in the long run, thus making all of our jobs that much harder.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

So did you just admit that the type of behavior in the OP happens in every game you do?

Because that is how I'm reading it.

You would be wrong, but that is not the first time.

Originally Posted by blindzebra

I don't care what rep Hightower, Valentine, Higgins and Burr have...but I guarantee you a player that screams you are Fing horrible at Teddy is getting whacked, and if it's in a HS game, that player is getting tossed...because it is irrelevant to the topic. I suspect it was just a means to talk about your rep, but that too isn't on topic.

I have seen Teddy V give Ts left and right. I have never seen him eject someone without two Ts. I am sure there was some profanity in those situations. I will bet money on that one. Actually I cannot think of anyone outside of Rick Barnes that he got rid of. And what did you people do here, say he should have done it.

Originally Posted by blindzebra

What is on topic is:

1. The player in the OP did commit a flagrant act.

2. An official that ignores it completely is a disgrace to officiating.

3. An official that just T's the player and doesn't eject them, only makes that behavior worse in the long run, thus making all of our jobs that much harder.

1. That is an opinion and judgment, not something that we all agree on. I guess if we disagree with you

2. I think it is a disgrace to tell other people what they "should" do because it is not your opinion.

3. Maybe for you because you do not have the ability to deal with the situation. Once again, I cannot think the last time or ever that a player cursed at me. They have said other things, but cursing? No.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have seen Teddy V give Ts left and right. I have never seen him eject someone without two Ts. I am sure there was some profanity in those situations. I will bet money on that one. Actually I cannot think of anyone outside of Rick Barnes that he got rid of.

D1 basketball is a completely different world than high school ball. I can't imagine Teddy V letting any high school player swear at him and call him names without unloading him.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

D1 basketball is a completely different world than high school ball. I can't imagine Teddy V letting any high school player swear at him and call him names without unloading him.

Maybe it is where you live.

Peace

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You would be wrong, but that is not the first time.



I have seen Teddy V give Ts left and right. I have never seen him eject someone without two Ts. I am sure there was some profanity in those situations. I will bet money on that one. Actually I cannot think of anyone outside of Rick Barnes that he got rid of. And what did you people do here, say he should have done it.



1. That is an opinion and judgment, not something that we all agree on. I guess if we disagree with you

2. I think it is a disgrace to tell other people what they "should" do because it is not your opinion.

3. Maybe for you because you do not have the ability to deal with the situation. Once again, I cannot think the last time or ever that a player cursed at me. They have said other things, but cursing? No.

Peace

Typical Rut BS.

Dealing with the situation in this case is blowing your whistle and unloading the little punk...something you appear to not have the sack to do.

We are discussing a specific event, not one that can't happen because the big, bad aura of J Rutledge is on the floor...get over yourself already, your arrogance was old a long time ago.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Typical Rut BS.

Dealing with the situation in this case is blowing your whistle and unloading the little punk...something you appear to not have the sack to do.

We are discussing a specific event, not one that can't happen because the big, bad aura of J Rutledge is on the floor...get over yourself already, your arrogance was old a long time ago.

All I can say is it does not happen in the games I work and it does not happen with the games I watch. If that is BS, then it is BS. It is the truth and I think the officials that I watch and work with often are very good at handling situations. We all can call the game it is how you handle situations that separate the wheat from the chaff. Also never said it could not happen, I said it does not happen. I threw out my first coach in over 10 seasons this past January. I was working with a freshman coach and he likely did not have a veteran official like me very often and he never used a single curse word toward me. I also pass a lot of schools to get too many of my games, so I am not sure who I would be afraid of. I will also bet I have put myself in a lot tougher situations than you would ever do on your own. So I take that "fear" comment coming from you as funny.

Peace